You were the one first claiming she had to work, then wanted to work, then flip-flopped again. You’ve established that she has no choice, she has to work. And now you’ve flip-flopped again. WTF?
If you were in such dire straits you were going entire weekends without food and you refused to ask for help you were acting foolishly at best. Frankly, I think that sort of antic to be fucking stupid.
And your point is…? I’m grateful to get help, too, but only if it’s actual help. I do not find pseudo-pious, self-righteous snobs donating crap to a food panty to salve their own conscience or whatever to be helpful and I’ll say so. I don’t find cutting the safety net even further to be helpful and I’ll say so. I don’t find nosing yourself into other peoples’ grocery carts and passing judgement on them to be helpful and I’ll say so.
Yes, yes, you do. You BRAG about how poor and hungry you were, how you struggled, and you make it very clear you don’t think today’s poor are as worthy as you because they don’t suffer as you did.
Holes in what theory? (not being snarky). It was never intended to be some sort of “theory" to replace unemployment. They are steps that, if taken can reduce the hardships of being on unemployment and which can be the first steps to escape. As I said very clearly, these are steps on the way out. They’re not a magic cure all. The bottom line is, does a person want to be right, or do they want to change it? Because let’s talk about right, so we know we’re all on the same page. There is no question that it’s wrong and completely unfair when a person puts 15 or 20 plus years into a job and that job goes away. I don’t think there’s a single person that’s going to argue that this sucks, isn’t right, is unfair, and it shouldn’t happen to anyone, especially someone hardworking, reliable, and responsible.
Yes, I do. Are you trying to say the inverse? That once out of a job a person has only two choices? Fast Food or UE/Welfare? That once out, UE should last indefinitely if/unless the person is offered a “worthy” job (no matter how long that takes)? At what point IS a person expected to take a hand in his/her own rescue? And more importantly, life on UE isn’t kicking back scarfing bon-bons, it’s HELL, hell on earth. It’s the kind of stress that kills. It’s not enough to do anything really, other than not starve. It won’t save a home bought when a person was working. If there are ways to escape it sooner, why wouldn’t a person want to try them?
I saw an interesting documentary a few years ago. 2008? 2009? something like that. It was exactly the sort of thing you’re talking about. I apologize for my faulty memory, but I think it was called “the last truck” or something similar. Anyway, IIRC the documentary crew followed the factory during the last 6 months to a year of its shutdown (people knew quite a ways in advance), with most of the show concentrating on the last 3 months and the last day. For the last part of the documentary, they were interviewing people as they left the parking lot for the last time (and this wasn’t the first time in the show that I teared up!) people were being interviewed in their cars as they left and the producers were asking them questions about what they were going to do.
I remember one lady, probably mid to late 40s who had a stack of text books on her seat, she kind of patted them and said (paraphrased of course) “well, I’m taking advantage of the retraining they offered us, and I’ve been going to night school for a while, so now it’s full-time for a bit. Yeah, it’s going to be really hard and money is really tight, but I’m gonna do it….”. Another guy was talking about how he was going to move to Florida (or somewhere) where he’d be staying with his kids for a while and working in their (restaurant? Hardware store?) and figuring out what to do from there.
Then there were some people who were (paraphrased) “I don’t know what I’m going to do, we didn’t have any time to prepare for this, I don’t know how they could do this to us……” and so on. Which just floored me, how “they” could do this to you? They went broke, they’re human beings just like you are, they’re not some sort of alien species who just exist to provide the perfect job for others.
Of course a fast food job is never going to be enough to live on. It’s certainly not intended to be. And I never said “take on a fast food job, give up your unemployment and live out your life like that". I said it was one of the steps a person can use to save themselves. It’s one of the steps a lot of people ALREADY take to help save themselves. As is getting a roomie. If a person is bringing in X dollars in unemployment and their expenses are X+400 bucks then having a job and a roomie is going to alleviate a lot of the stress of being in that situation. It’s not going to cure everything all at once, but it’s a step in the right direction for a lot of different reasons.
As I stated in a previous post, a person can work and still collect unemployment, at least the last time I was on it they could. IIRC they reduce your UE check by 75 cents on the dollar for every dollar you make up to a certain point. So if you get a situation where you are making up to the limit (450 bucks a month back in the day IIRC) now you’re making more a month than on UE alone. And if you take advantage of other little “helps” now you’ve alleviated some of your debt load and can worry just a bit less.
I have been there. I know what it feels like to be out of work, for not months, but years, and I have LIVED the desperation that sets in after a while. When I was in this situation, I lived in an oilfield town. Talk about weird demographics. Half the town making big bank and the other half on unemployed, on welfare and woefully underemployed. I was one of the thousands of out of work oilfield people. I got to the point where I’d see someone in a grocery store with a “Oilfield Company A” on the back, and I’d have to fight the urge to go up and ask if they could help me get a job. You’re like a person who’s lonely and living with a broken heart, you get to the point where you’d just about kill for just a hug from a potential love interest, but the opposite sex runs the other direction if you so much as glance their way. But what happens when you get married? Men/women come out of the woodwork and are crawling all over you. WTF? THAT is one of the benefits of staying in the “habit of working”. That coupled with doing all of the other things (like having a roomie, working opposite shifts with your spouse) that help alleviate a little of the money woes, that help allow a person to not give off that desperate vibe.
You’re acting as if this is an either/or situation. And as to “….make an environment that creates jobs….”. Those of us who are touting these steps for people to help get themselves out of their situations aren’t in any kind of position to do that. We’re in the same boat, two paychecks away from unemployment. And that’s wher we’re speaking, from a place of “we’ve been there, it can be done”.
Is it a “oh go work at McDonalds and professionals in your field are sure to see you and give you an opportunity” kind of thing? No. And it doesn’t have to be McDonalds. (GAH, I can see why people would rather starve than work there, NO arguments from me there). One of mine was at a bar in a Chinese restaurant, at one point, a guy came in that I knew, he worked at one of the big refineries in the area, and more importantly, he was someone I’d played this (ridiculously fun) game with when I’d been going to tech school. I got a wild hair and sent him a letter “hey remember me, ummm. If you ever have the chance or need someone blah blah blah”. And it didn’t get me a job, what it DID get me was what’s called a “turnaround” which is ~6 week shutdown type operation of the refinery (or a part of it) which paid pretty well. It was not a cure-all, it wasn’t a big oil refinery job, it was just a little step in the right direction. And it helped domino me into the means to escape that locked in town and move back to where there were jobs (which still took me a while and was a baby step by baby step process). Had I been sitting at home, I never would have had that opportunity.
BLEARGH, forget McDonald’s, you people are OBSESSED with McDonald’s!! Okay all joking aside, it doesn’t have to be fast food, it can be any minimum wage job. Hell it can be the weekend shift at the airport parking garage (no need for paying daycare if your wife is working a 9-5). And yes, you may not network with someone who takes you from Mickey D’s back to the corporate world. What may happen is that you network into a job that’s a step or two above minimum wage, probably still not in your field, but making more than minimum wage, and doing something less odious than McDonald’s. Then that job can segue into something slightly better. This isn’t like being discovered at the counter at Woolworth’s ala Grace Kelly, it’s a step by step process.
The point isn’t where you work, it’s THAT you’re working and that the returns for having a job can help be the first steps out of a situation, not some magic instantaneous cure-all. And taking a job to help alleviate some of the burden of trying to live on unemployment is not the only thing that can be done. These, as I said, were SOME of the steps that can be taken.
You’re taking “out of the habit of working “ to mean lazy/bad/worthless and so on, that’s why it was in quotes, to signify “so to speak”. No, I don’t think people become defective or whatever if they have been out of work too long. But there is a mentality that can set in and can mentally and emotionally cripple a person with somewhat of a fear of “being out there”. I’m talking about how it affects the person themselves, not how they’re perceived by the world. And alleviating how it’s affecting the chronically unemployed person is the point behind D. It’s a normal human reaction and I’m casting NO aspersions on someone who’s there (because I’ve been there too). The statement was shorthand for the kind of (for lack of a more complex psychological breakdown) almost agoraphobic mentality that can take place. And again, I’m not saying everyone is going to feel this same way. But it is certainly understandable and logical that someone who’s worked for 15 or 20 years in the same industry and suddenly has “who they are” taken way, that it’s going to cause some emotional upset. Having any sort of normalcy and feeling as if you aren’t just some sparrow in a hurricane can help beyond words.
On review. I changed my mind. If someone isn’t hardworking, reliable, or responsible, I think they should be taken out of the job they’re not putting into (or are making others miserable at, particularly if they’re a boss from hell as in the threads that get posted here sometimes). Sometimes bad things happen to bad people (which is an entirely different thread of course). And that is as it should be imho.
Gosh, I guess you must be a very wonderful person who can judge another’s situation, even with out knowing them. I can’t see why what I write should bother you when I didn’t necessarily know your situation. I feel you have a right to your opinion. I am not referring to people who really need help, but those who feel they are entitled to live off others. If that is your way of looking at things, that to is your right.
Christ, do you seriously not see the irony in this post?
BTW, I asked if you weredrunk or ill because of your rambling posts and spelling mistakes (which have improved), not because I disagree with you. I did mention that in my other post, actually. Note that I haven’t asked the same question of anyone else that I disagree with.
Childcare is a huge deal. And its solved numerous ways. I have a friend who does childcare as her job rather than working - they need two incomes because her husband’s hours became very undependable during the recession - and her childcare business keeps them afloat. Her youngest is getting out of childcare age, and she may go back to being “employed.” Another friend and her husband worked split shifts for almost a decade. Another one has a network of grandmas, friends and relatives that help out. Another freelances out of his house so that he can watch kids. And for some people, it simply makes sense for one parent to stay home.
I think that if people realized how expensive childcare was before they conceived children, our birthrates would plummet. Childcare is almost unaffordable to even the middle middle class (it can be a stretch for the upper middle class). And when I run the world, daycare becomes part of the public school system - free for everyone who desires to take advantage of it - starting as daycare and transitioning to preschool over time.
WHOA … nobody here cares that Bank of America’s check are getting reduced as well. You know what will happen to the used Lear Jet market when those payments are slashed to only $75B a month.
The truth isn’t bragging, bragging is embellishing a story. I do know there are not people who think they are entitled to have what others have, regardless of the situation.Yes, there are people who need help, and many are grateful and don’t expect to live on an other person’s money, they don’t complain either.
Monavis, let me introduce you to the concept of humble brag, please feel free to apply definitions #3 onward to yourself. Also, you’re starting to get a little incoherent again.
If Monavis has taught me anything, it’s that even stupid people can triumph over adversity. If someone as dull and marginal as her can learn to type (kinda) then we are all guaranteed success. Because Jesus. Amen, Assalamu Alaikum, Buddah’s name be praised.
The OP is a typical snob. He has prepared himself in the job market to be about as productive as a ditch digger or burger flipper, but because he has children (!) and “the only house they’ve ever known” he feels he is entitled to reach into the taxpayer’s pocket for another year. He is desperately afraid that his children and wife will see him for the entitled fraud that he is, so he blames politicians who refuse to use the guns of the state apparatus to seize the fruits of his neighbor’s labor. He likely rants along with Rachel Maddow in front of his bewildered family and infects them with an ideology that says it is ok to steal so that you don’t have to suffer the embarrassment of living in a working class neighborhood (ooh scary).
I guess J.K. Rowling was also a fraud when she was unemployed and getting government help. It seems that other countries like England learned that lesson a long time ago.
You see, the reason why one should have a better security net is because the majority of those “frauds” are actually looking for better jobs and opportunities, and they will be glad to pay more taxes when they get better knowing that many others will benefit.
The OP is a snob. Plain and simple. He feels entitled to a certain standard of living that is above others of a similar potential productivity. Also, in what amounts to a slap in the face to hard workers of a lower income, he believes they should be contributing to his stipend whilst believing he is above the work they do.
He is fraud because he uses his children as argument fodder and bemoans the fact that he is unable to provide them with material needs he believes they are entitled to when he won’t get off his couch. Simultaneously, he is being a poor role model to these children by scapegoating politicians who don’t cater to him instead of taking responsibility for his poor career planning and preparation.
Okay all joking aside, it doesn’t have to be fast food, it can be any minimum wage job. Hell it can be the weekend shift at the airport parking garage (no need for paying daycare if your wife is working a 9-5). And yes, you may not network with someone who takes you from Mickey D’s back to the corporate world. What may happen is that you network into a job that’s a step or two above minimum wage, probably still not in your field, but making more than minimum wage, and doing something less odious than McDonald’s. Then that job can segue into something slightly better. This isn’t like being discovered at the counter at Woolworth’s ala Grace Kelly, it’s a step by step process.
Are you responding to my post?