Request: don't put ChatGPT or other AI-generated content in non-AI threads

I can see the advantage of having a suitably trained and validated chatbot generate basic glurgage for a press release, or as an initial draft of a legal brief, or to produce technical documentation (assuming someone does a thorough job of reviewing it and checking facts and references) but introducing it into an open discussion seems pointless unless literally nobody has any useful ideas. I’m sure that the technology will evolve to the point that it won’t require tailored prompts and it can just engage in free discussion but I don’t think I’ve ever wanted to have a debate with my toaster oven or cared what my refrigerator thinks about the future of the Panama Canal.

I do think that “AI” will be crucial in developing certain ideas in physics and mathematics that are just seemingly beyond the information a human can hold in their head, and potentially useful in a number of contexts as a more flexible expert system than purely rules-based knowledge agents can ever be but there is a long road before systems can be reliable enough to be trusted to provide useful results (and distinguish between ‘truth’ and nonsense), and it is completely unclear at this point how we can develop a framework to validate the reliability of such systems.

Stranger

I see a kernel of merit in what the OP is saying, but I vehemently disagree with the reasons given. Saying that AIs are “notoriously unreliable” and that “they string words together real plausibly, but they’re not relying on research; rather, they’re relying on the probability that certain verbs, nouns, and conjunctions (etc) would go together in a particular format” shows a level of disdain that isn’t supported by AIs’ real-world performance. As I noted here, GPT-4 scored in the 90th percentile on the Uniform Bar Exam; it aced all sections of the SAT, which among other things tests for reading comprehension and math and logic skills, and it scored far higher across the board than the average human; it passed the Wharton MBA exam on operations management, which requires the student to make operational decisions from an analysis of business case studies; and it did equally well on many other tests. They’re certainly not infallible, but OpenAI and Google Research, among others, are betting big money that large language models and other AI technologies will have enormous commercial utility. There’s clearly a lot more going on here than simple token prediction, and a big part of that is the unexpected skills that emerge on very large model scales (“emergent properties”) and after extensive machine learning.

Maybe the disdain originates from the trajectory that the public perception of GPT has been following since it became widely publicized: first, it was hailed as amazing and revolutionary, but as some of the failings of the earlier models became known, there was a tendency to dismiss it as “just” a stochastic parrot driven by token prediction. The implication is that the demonstrated competence is purely an illusion, but as shown in the link above to some of the tests GPT-4 has passed, this implication is false.

In the 1960s the AI researcher Joseph Weizenbaum developed a conversational program called Eliza that was modeled on the style of a non-directive therapist; it never had anything original to say, but it would respond in a human-like way to comments that the user typed. It clearly had no understanding of anything and was completely predictable. There was a story that Weizenbaum’s secretary was enthralled with it and loved conversing with it, which subjected her to a certain amount of ridicule in the AI community. I have a feeling that much of the disdain for GPT stems from the notion that if it runs on a computer, then it’s just some stupid algorithm just like Eliza. The unfortunate use of the prefix “chat” in ChatGPT 3.5 reinforces the impression that it’s just a mindless chatbot that strings words together, further reinforced by a simplistic but totally unrealistic impression of how it works.

Sorry for the long preamble but this is at least the third time that the OP’s disdain for GPT has come up on this board and I’m perplexed by the reason for it. But on the practical question of what our protocols should be on this board with respect to AIs like that, I don’t see any problem with occasional use of GPT as a cite, provided that (a) it’s attributed and not passed off as the poster’s own writing, otherwise it’s like any other kind of plagiarism, (b) vetted by poster by cross-referencing with one or more reliable sources, and (c) sparingly used, otherwise it becomes a substitute for the poster’s own knowledge and reasoning.

In particular, I don’t see a problem with the post that @Crane made that spawned this complaint. It was attributed, it’s not something the poster habitually does, and as far as I could tell from some casual Googling it’s substantially correct. So it adds useful information to the discussion. I agree that the absence of cited sources is problematic, but if the information is suspect it can easily be refuted. If, instead, we insist that we should never do this, then we’re depriving ourselves of a potentially very useful tool – one that some important companies are betting will be worth a fortune in the commercial marketplace. It’s not just an information source; among its skills is the ability to summarize potentially opaque prose, such as sections of scientific papers, and the ability to analyze and organize unstructured data. We should just use it honestly and with proper attribution.

I know you are–although I would like to clarify that my disdain is not for GPT, but for the ways people use it on these boards and, less relevant to this thread, talk about it on these boards. My reasons remain.

Not to get into argument over this point, but your reason #1 sounds to me like the “stochastic parrot” argument, which seriously mischaracterizes what GPTs are actually capable of. Coupled with other comments you’ve made elsewhere, like that fact that they’re terrible at writing parodies, it sure sounds like disdain to me. Your reason #3 is an outright statement of disdain.

And they’re not very persuasive. Reason #1 is technically very misleading, although I agree that the absence of sources is problematic when using it as a cite, but that need not be an issue if it’s just supplementary to an actual cite to a reliable source, and simply makes information clearer or more succinct. Reason #2 is irrelevant – we already have rules against hijacks. Reason #3 is just a personal subjective statement of dislike.

Slight hijack:

Has GPT-4 passed a Turing test? (really asking)

/hijack

Given all that, why is it that whenever I ask it a question, it comes up with nonsense?

To the best of my knowledge, it’s never been seriously tried, and now that everybody and his dog knows about GPT, it likely wouldn’t be feasible. Some researchers believe the Turing test is misguided anyway, and have proposed alternatives like Winograd schemas. It was developed by Terry Winograd, an early AI pioneer and expert in computational linguistics, and successfully passing the challenge requires an understanding of real-world concepts and behaviours.

According to this, GPT-4 did extremely well (94.4%) on the Winograd challenge.

Just a quick answer to a quick question. Let’s not hijack this thread on this tangent.

as far as the risk of unattributed AI text goes, I understand that there are tools out there that can detect this? Can SDMB have a similar filter?

I am currently recruiting a staff member, and as a part of the process we had an online written test. Our HR actually caught a candidate using AI with such a tool. Got disqualified.

I would think it obvious that this is not the place to debate the capabilities or history of AI. I will not debate the capabilities of AI here, much less get into any sort of absurd back-and-forth about my own personal feelings in the merits of them.

This thread is to discuss the appropriateness of injecting AI-generated text into threads about other subjects. Many, many people have said that they find it obnoxious and nonproductive to do so. Posters may take that into advisement when choosing whether to use AI-generated text in their posts.

FTR, GPT-4 is foundational to Bing Chat, so it’s absolutely the same technology as ChatGPT, but with additional technical enhancements that are proprietary to Microsoft. Microsoft is the biggest single stakeholder in OpenAI.

I’m posting this partly just to keep the facts straight, but there’s also an underlying message that any stricture to not use AI as an assistant in sourcing and structuring information is becoming a vast gray area where the distinction between traditional Google word-matching searches and generative AI is becoming blurred. Indeed, Google itself is piloting a new AI technology they call the Search Generative Experience (PDF).that encourages collaboration between the user and a generative AI along similar lines to Bing Chat.

The world is changing, but the basic ethical principle that should always apply here is as old as writing itself, and is simply “never plagiarize, and provide attribution to content that isn’t your own”. The value of the information that an AI produces is a moving target that is always improving, and that’s not the central issue, in my view. ChatGPT 3.5 is just an experimental research prototype that’s already obsolete.

And how do you do that while using a giant plagiarism machine?

I have heard of such tools as well but I have not seen any evaluation that they are reliable at detecting AI text.

I suspect they are very unreliable…but just a guess. I do not know.

The same way we’ve been doing it for the nearly 600 years since the invention of the Gutenberg press.

Good artists borrow, great artists steal. ~Pablo Picasso

Plagiarizing is clearly wrong but is that what AI is doing?

As a student you were told to write papers on various topics. You’d read things from various sources and then distill them into your paper.

Isn’t that what AI does?

Isn’t that kinda what we do here?

That’s a really interesting question, and probably deserves it’s own thread in IMHO. Or possibly summer other forum, depending on what type of discussion you want.

AI encompasses many different technologies, but that’s precisely what generative transformer models do. No one should post generated responses from a GPT engine and pretend that it’s their own. But anyone, IMHO, should feel free to post responses based on information from AI-assisted searches, and in more formal contexts like GD, PE, and FQ, should also post reliable citations.

I can interact with ChatGPT on my own computer. I come here to interact with bio-humanoids.

I created that post:

That’s an aspect of AI that’s causing fits at my company. While we’re fine with using Bing’s tool for ChatGPT content generation (subject to review), we’re having meetings on whether we should use AI-generated art from image hosts like Getty and Adobe Stock.

My viewpoint is that the image hosts already have contracts with whoever submits work to them, whether it be photographs, illustrations, what have you. The image host has already accepted material subject to their guidelines and have the legal authority to license it as publicly available. I’m sure the image host already has vast legal resources to avoid crossing the line into trademark/copyright territory, and if the AI-generated image fits that criteria, then our company shouldn’t be liable. They already can’t use famous identities like Albert Einstein, whose face is trademarked by his estate, so we avoid that legal quagmire altogether.

My line manager is nervous about using AI-generated images, and we discussed the matter with our copyright guru, but he doesn’t have anything to do with AI issues. He also favors not using AI-generated art (for now) because of the possible effect on our reputation, as it could look too meme-ish.

That being said, I’ve found some brilliant AI-generated images on Adobe and Getty, and these are professionally done. If the artists are basing the AI on anything, it’s their own style of artwork. They’re simply using the AI generator to speed the process. I agree amateurs can easily abuse AI generators like Night Cafe by making Trump barbarian pictures in the style of Frank Frazetta, but we’d never use it because it’s not “brand.” We’re also not afraid of AI taking our jobs because that would depend on the clients actually knowing what they wanted. :smiley:

Put me in the “please leave it out of unrelated threads” camp. I have a GPT Plus subscription, mainly for access to DallE. It’s useful and fun! But I’m not here to talk to it.

Every time I see “I asked ChatGPT to…” I roll my eyes a little, regardless of the context. It’s not even about its reliability, it’s just low effort and unproductive.

I used to tell my students that I’d rather read something short and rough by them than something long and awesome written by somebody else. The same applies to you chuckleheads.

Most of you.