Requesting a different pain med.. acceptable?

So I had a toothache caused by a “raised crown” grinding on another crown and got Vicodin called in for the pain. Granted, they gave me the weaker 5/500, but it didn’t do anything to cut down the pain, and I hate taking Vicodin due to the dependency issue (yeah one week probably isn’t going to get me hooked but still). I have taken Tramadol (Ultracet) before for pain and it worked great (post wisdom teeth extraction in fact).

Would it be acceptable if I need to get another pain prescription if I requested Tramadol instead? Or do I have to stick with what they give me even though I feel the strength they give me doesn’t do anything and am afraid of requesting something stronger due to the addictive nature? (and the fact that I may look like a drug user wanting a stronger fix)

The factual answer is yes, it would be acceptable for you to ask your health care provider to prescribe a different medication. Doctors are not lawgivers and not infallible. If you know that a med works better for you, of course you should talk with your doctor about it. No guarantee that he or she will actually prescribe it for you, but there’s no way for them to know your preference if you don’t ask.

Something similar happened to my wife when she had a root canal. They gave her Vicodin which didn’t work for her and made her nauseous, then they tried Demerol which didn’t work any better. They gave Codeine which seemed ok but she didn’t take it much and just stuck with Ibuprofen.

I found that taking a couple Tylenol (rapid release) and some Alieve helped more than the vicodin, but makes my stomach hurt a little (feels like I am really, really hungry kind of hurt).

If they do any work, I may request my preference and see if they have any reasons not to let me take Tramadol instead.

I had two surgeries a few years back. After the first one, they gave me Vicodin, which was okay as a painkiller but really bad on my entire digestive system. Before the second surgery, I requested something else to avoid some of the side effects. They gave me Percocet instead, and I had a much better reaction to that. As long as you seem to have a legitimate reason for asking for a different medication, and I think you do, I doubt there will be any problem.

I have fairly extreme reactions to every opiate I’ve tried other than Codeine. I explain this up front… it has been my experience that doctors don’t look on people who turn down Vicodin as drug seekers. Addicts are not so discriminating I guess.

Tramadol is an opiate, too (basically synthetic codine) and has dependency issues just like Vicodin. In fact, since it works better than Vicodin for you, it is more likely to get you hooked. (Though a week is probably not a big risk on either drug.)

But it’s perfectly acceptable to inform your doctor that Vicodin doesn’t work well for you, and you’d like something else.

I am a prescriber

when a patient tells me what has worked or not worked in the past, I listen (for various reasons)

when I REALLY listen is when a patient says:

“The only thing that ever helps is (narcotic). Nothing else ever helps.”

note to self: go look at their past drug profile

When my back goes out, the doctor usually prescribes Vicodin for the pain. I usually request Tylenol-3. It usually relieves my pain better, and doesn’t turn me into a zombie, so I can work.

Maybe that makes me an addict, but the doctor usually listens.

Regards,
Shodan

One thing to note- Many versions of Codiene pain relievers have acetaminophen (called “paracetamol” elsewhere). A does of as little as 2X the RDA can cause catastrophic liver damage, esp when combined with booze.

wiki:*Paracetamol is contained in many preparations (both over-the-counter and prescription-only medications). In some animals, for example cats, small doses are toxic. Because of the wide availability of paracetamol there is a large potential for overdose and toxicity.[19] Without timely treatment, overdose can lead to liver failure and death within days; paracetamol toxicity is, by far, the most common cause of acute liver failure in both the United States and the United Kingdom.[20][21] It is sometimes used in suicide attempts by those unaware of the prolonged timecourse and high morbidity (likelihood of significant illness) associated with paracetamol-induced toxicity in survivors…The toxic dose of paracetamol is highly variable. In adults, single doses above 10 grams or 150 mg/kg have a reasonable likelihood of causing toxicity.[22] Toxicity can also occur when multiple smaller doses within 24 hours exceeds these levels, or even with chronic ingestion of doses as low as 4 g/day, and death with as little as 6 g/day.

In children acute doses above 200 mg/kg could potentially cause toxicity. This higher threshold is largely due to children having larger kidneys and livers relative to body size than adults and hence being more tolerant of paracetamol overdose than adults.[23] Acute paracetamol overdose in children rarely causes illness or death with chronic supratherapeutic doses being the major cause of toxicity in children.

Since paracetamol is often included in combination with other drugs, it is important to include all sources of paracetamol when checking a person’s dose for toxicity. In addition to being sold by itself, paracetamol may be included in the formulations of various analgesics and cold/flu remedies as a way to increase the pain-relieving properties of the medication and sometimes in combination with opioids such as hydrocodone to deter people from using it recreationally or becoming addicted to the opioid substance, as at higher doses than intended the paracetamol will cause irreversible damage to the liver. In fact, the human toll of acetaminophen, in terms of both fatal overdoses and chronic liver toxicity to habitual abusers of pain medication, likely far exceeds the damage caused by the opioids themselves.[24][page # needed] To prevent overdoses, one should read medication labels carefully for the presence of paracetamol and check with a pharmacist before using over-the-counter medications.*
Americans, etc please read acetaminophen where it says paracetamol.

Note that Vicodin contains (wiki)Hydrocodone (which) is a semi-synthetic opioid derived from two of the naturally occurring opiates, codeine and thebaine.

As for Tramadol:"Tramadol … is an atypical opioid which is a centrally acting analgesic, used for treating mild to moderate pain. It is a synthetic agent, as a 4-phenyl-piperidine analogue of codeine,[1][2] …Dependence

*Some controversy exists regarding the dependence liability of tramadol. *Grünenthal has promoted it as an opioid with a lower risk of opioid dependence than that of traditional opioids, claiming little evidence of such dependence in clinical trials. They offer the theory that since the M1 metabolite is the principal agonist at μ-opioid receptors, the delayed agonist activity reduces dependence liability. The noradrenaline reuptake effects may also play a role in reducing dependence.

Despite these claims, it is apparent, in community practice, that dependence to this agent does occur.[17] However, this dependence liability is considered relatively low by health authorities, such that tramadol is classified as a Schedule 4 Prescription Only Medicine in Australia, rather than as a Schedule 8 Controlled Drug like other opioids (Rossi, 2004). Similarly, tramadol is not currently scheduled by the U.S. DEA, unlike other opioid analgesics. Nevertheless, the prescribing information for Ultram warns that tramadol “may induce psychological and physical dependence of the morphine-type”. In addition, there are widespread reports by consumers of extremely difficult withdrawal experiences. [18]

A controlled study that compared different medications found “the percent of subjects who scored positive for abuse at least once during the 12-month follow-up were 2.5% for NSAIDs, 2.7% for tramadol, and 4.9% for hydrocodone. When more than one hit on the dependency algorithm was used as a measure of persistence, abuse rates were 0.5% for NSAIDs, 0.7% for tramadol, and 1.2% for hydrocodone. Thus, the results of this study suggest that the prevalence of abuse/dependence over a 12-month period in a CNP population that was primarily female was equivalent for tramadol and NSAIDs, with both significantly less than the rate for hydrocodone”.[18]

I requested something other than Vicodin and told my Dentist only that it made me loopy but didn’t seem to do much for pain. She prescribed Percocet, which cost about 2.5 times as much (though I did get a higher quantity -20 rather than 10) and seems to make me EVEN more loopier. I don’t remember getting such feelings from Tramadol. I suspect I will take 1 at night before I go to bed and do over the counter stuff instead. Oh well, I didn’t want to look like a drug user pushing for something and getting a red flag on my chart or anything.

Oh, and the pain in my tooth was a very sizable abscess and I am going to need to get a root canal. I would yank it, but that generally runs like 400 dollars, and a root canal is 900- she is covering part of the cost of the existing crown, even though she needs to re-do it. It is more expensive, but I don’t want to yank a bunch of teeth as I already have had one removed. (and a root canal is much more pleasant than having it yanked… shudder)

I work in a pharmacy, so I have a little experience with the dispensing side of things. Normally, if a patients wants something other then hydrocodone/APAP (Vicodin, Loratab, etc) we take the patient at their word. If you want to get tramadol instead, ask your doctor, most likely they would approve it.

I’ve only seen 2 forgeries for tramadol, versus too many to count for hydrocodone/APAP.

I decided years ago that it wasn’t a very important part of my role as a physician to be the narcotic policeman for drug abusers. I wouldn’t really care what you wanted and would generally honor a preference absent any red flags. However this reflects my personal philosophy and there certainly are docs out there who feel inclined to turn over every stone to ferret out addicts.

In general it raises an eyebrow to request a specific narcotic preparation because it automatically implies a familiarity with a broad range of narcotics. It’s one thing to say “I had a reaction to Vicodin” and quite another (as nipplesup mentions) to say “Only Percocet works for me.” It’s another red flag to sort of remember after the fact of getting an Rx filled that only “x” works. Most preferences/reactions are mentioned at the time of prescribing. Oddly enough an over-obsession with “I don’t want to get addicted” is also a red flag b/c it comes across as an artificial reassurance to the physician. She wouldn’t be prescribing a narcotic in the first place if she thought it was an issue.

For the most part a new patient won’t be given any grief for expressing any preference. You will get the benefit of any doubt.

As to what is stronger/better/faster/longer in the world of pain relief, there is such a psychological overlay that from the prescriber’s side it’s seldom worth getting into an argument. Patients will swear that A works better than B when the only difference is the name on the same preparation.

Last time I was in the ER, I asked for a painkiller, and turned down Vicodin because it doesn’t work for me. The doctor was amazed that I’d turned it down, but then after I explained, told me that some people just don’t have the enzyme(s?) necessary to process Vicodin. While I found this interesting, I’d have been far happier to not find this out first hand.

I had wisdom teeth extracted and was nursing a baby at the time. The surgeon assured me he would prescribe a breastfeeding compatible pain killer. When my husband picked up the scrip that had been phoned in, however, it was not the medication we had agreed upon.
After quick phone call to the doctor’s office they phoned in another scrip with no problem.

Do not forget that while your doctor is (hopefully) well educated, you are a consumer of healthcare. It is your right and responsibility to speak up and work with your health care practitioners rather than to meekly do as told and question nothing. Your doctor is not a mind reader, and they want you to be comfortable.

As wiki explains, the acetaminophen is there to discourage recreational use. It is enough of a factor that it makes acetaminophen+codeine a Schedule III narcotic, while just plain codeine is Schedule II (more record keeping, etc).

When I had my gallbladder removed, I was concerned about the amount of acetaminophen I was ingesting in order to get an appropriate amount of codeine. My brother, a chemist, explained how I could do a simple extraction to get rid of the acetaminophen.

Note to junkies: Pay attention in Organic Chem Lab. :smiley:

Since 70% of my patients have a substance abuse history, hearing that my patient can only use oxycodone or morphine tends to make me even more leery than usual.

BUT: Significant acute pain and malignant pain usually both merit use of narcotics, whether or not the patient has a substance abuse history.

So having an idea of what the patient thinks works is helpful.

And I will listen to any patient who tells me what meds do and don’t work for them.

It doesn’t mean I’ll give them what they want. But I will use the info in my process of deciding what I believe they need.

I am pretty adamant about asking for ibuprofin for a low level pain killer. As I expain it to them aspirin makes me upchuck blood, tylenol, naprosin are about as good for pain as M&Ms, Ibuprofin works. If I need something stronger, then we discuss options.