Resolved: Stan Lee Screwed Up The Marvel Universe By Banning Sidekicks

[Stonebow]

Askia, thank you for replying to my points. I will concede that the historical basis for a kid sidekick is greater than I had first considered. It was a weak point, and deserved correction.

As for the Spidey thing- yes, a sidekick is by definition ‘less’ than his mentor. Otherwise, they’d be partners. Perhaps we’re just stuck on definitions here. You can only keep one side in the subordinate position for so long- didn’t Batman discover that with Nightwing?

I don’t want to get in the kiddle of your debate with DocCathode, but I see his points.
Re: Dr. Strange: he has Wong, he has his wife, and an assortment of fully grown people for whom he serves a mentor. Why throw a kid into it? Perhaps if his son is born with powers, and he has to tutor him…but just taking on a random child to train, and along with training, letting the kid ride shotgun into the seven hells? Not going to work. Instant hostage squared.

Re: Beta Ray Bill. There is a difference here- with an adult, you know his temperment, his virtues, vices, etc. They are not likely to change too much. You know the man before giving him near-ultimate power. What if the kid you empower turns into a total ass? Not being driven mad or anything, but because he was just gonig to grow up to be an ass in the natural course of things?

Re: Iron Man: Jim Rhodes started as a pilot and bdyguard. how many millionaire execs have teenage pilot/bodyguards?

Re: Human Torch. The FF is the ultimate dysfunctional family. But was Johnny that much younger than the rest when he gained his powers? Should we relagate all ‘immature’ heroes to sidekick status now?

Re: Spider-Man: He’s the ultimate geek hero. Don’t demean him by making him a child. I’d need a whole new threat to discuss him.

And lastly, I really don’t see how using The Professional as an example strengthened your point. Do you know how it ends? Perhaps that’s why more heroes don’t want sidekicks. Leon got his soul opened all right…as well as his lungs. All due to his sidekick giving the bad guys a way in. This is predictable behavior on the part of both the sidekick and the villain.

[Askia]

Stonebow. I appreciate your patience. I hope I didn’t scare off DocCathode by acting too much the smartass. I was enjoying that.

I like the fact that in discussing this topic over the last three days I’m getting more and more interaction from people who aren’t so quick to dismiss the idea of sidekicks now that I’ve thrown up some more examples and had a chance to address their objections. The cognitive dissonance between the accepted norm of “sending children into combat is wrong!” and citing the many, many examples in history, contemporary events and literature where it does in fact happen is interesting for people to reconsider. I appreciate most people aren’t sold on the idea that Stan Lee screwed up ('Cuz he did. Royally. Big missed opportunity.) but in pointing out the many kinds of storytelling opportunities that COULD exist at DC and Marvel by using sidekicks to tell training stories, learning independence stories, legacy stories, etc. I firmly believe the problem isn’t with sidekics – just how sidekicks are depicted.

Another thing I like about sidekicks is purely from a professional standpoint as a classroom teacher – I’m trained in early childhood pedagogy – strategies for teaching very young children. But recently I’ve been disenchanted with teaching at that age level and in the public schools so I’m about to try teaching adults reading in Atlanta soon. Now adults are usually taught usingandragogical approaches to learning. Much different than teaching kids. More hands on, experienced based. Adults don’t learn toward state guidelines, they set their own learning goals.

It occurred to me that the best sidekicks are unconsciously taught by mentoring superheroes using so-called adult methodology and treated with much more respect and competence and independence that most children do. Further they usually have to undergo rigorous pedagogy because most kid sidekicks have to go to some kind of school.

Now that two-tiered learning style obviously won’t work for every child adventurer or assure that EVERY adult superhero is going to be a success as a teacher, either – but I think its an interesting development that could led to interesting stories.

I loved the fact that Leon: The Professional ended on such a down note. It’s one of the more compelling adventure stories in recent years and an awesome story of a failed hero/sidekick relationship. Nobody said these stories had to be successful. Just interesting, good stories. And no, I don’t think it’s a cautionary tale against sidekicks. Leon almost got clean away, remember? Even dying, he still took out the bad guy.