Resolved, that using "karen" as a pejorative is off limits

We have a new thread where the term “karen” used as a pejorative is the topic. Several posters, including myself have said that he term is hurtful, bigoted and sexist.

More or less it is taking the place of “bitch” as used as a pejorative towards women only.

No one denies it is a pejorative. No one denies it is used only against women.

It has the added nastiness that it is hurtful towards women who are named “karen”.

The casual use of this term should be against the rules just as “bitch” is (in most contexts).

Ok then:
John
Mick
Charlie
Sam
Becky
Betty
Adolf
Mary
Brad
Chad
Jane
Dick
Ricky
Scooby
Shaggy
Velma
Mussolini

What a waste of time and thought.

Points of consideration.

Has anyone on this message board ever used this to insult another poster?

Is calling someone off-board a “bitch” against the rules? Don’t think it used to be, but not sure if that’s changed.

Anybody who pays attention to what’s going on around them will deny this.

Actually that could be considered misogynistic. Particularly when used only against women politicians. So context would matter. We don’t have a hard and fast rule for such. No one has used the term in 2023 on the general board that I know of as an insult that way. It is usually used as in So and so will be bitching about their treatment … bitching and moaning is used fairly often I believe. And then their is that really dumb PAB Pussy Ass Bitch acronym for Trump.

I’d like to propose an amendment to this rule.
Anyone that spells ‘Karen’ with a lower case k gets a warning.
It’s entirely disrespectful to both Karens and correct English in general.

Male Kaern Youtube videos:

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=male+karen

I deny this. Your premise is therefore void.

No more so than calling someone a dick is an insult to people named Richard.

To be honest, I’m not sure I like it, either, in part because I have a cousin and a family friend both named “Karen”, and both of whom are perfectly nice, reasonable people.

That said, it’s a description of a real sort of person, and it’s often useful to be able to talk about that sort of person in terms that others will understand. It’s not synonymous with “bitch”, even if that’s taken as a gender-neutral term. It describes a person who believes the world owes them everything, and who will attempt to work within the system (even when the system does not in fact exist), because they’re convinced that The System is always on their side (or should be, if they know what’s good for them).

So, if we don’t use the term “Karen” for this type of person, what’s a better alternative?

In contrast, the one Karen I know is kind of extra, so I am already predisposed against that name.

I don’t like the term but I’m not sure there’s a solid foundation for banning it. While I do think it’s got a whiff of misogyny I think it would be harder to demonstrate that everyone who uses it has misogynist intent.

The people I know named Karen are nice people. They have nothing to do with a popular meme, not my invention, that describes a specific behaviour. Karen also refers to a specific ethnic group. Few know this, and this is not relevant to the discussion.

Of course, people are free to judge what they find offensive. In obvious cases where lots of people agree, it is worth formulating rules. When only a few people think so, it may be wrong to make them arbiters of what free speech is permitted. It is not that they are necessarily unreasonable or mistaken, though this may be the case. I shouldn’t gratuitously offend people unless trying to do so. However, not everything is equal just because someone objects.

As I said in the original linked thread (without response there from the poster here):

I’m not sure I agree with the reductionist “you are either woke or not” which might be used in theory to justify conflating important issues with something far less so. (Our college newspaper insisted on using the spelling womyn, for example). There are many important issues, and some things are obviously offensive but others far more subjective, and might offend far fewer people. I think many people have implicit biases, I think there is value in trying to do the right thing. Using the term Karen is, to my view, a fairly innocuous thing if there is a male version and it is understood not to refer to actual people with that name but a specific behaviour. Reasonable people might disagree.

Patton Oswald has a comedy bit about how he tries to be woke and sensitive, but perceived [“mistakes” (in the eyes of someone) will occur]. He talks about how RuPaul was criticized for not using the most up-to-date terminology. He jokes about how he will be booed in the future by saying something he thinks is innocent and doesn’t realize is now offensive to some of his future audience. “I don’t think people should have sex with their clones. BOOOO!!!” He sees this as inevitable.

So when I was in college, a few newspaper editors, woker-than-thou, decided it was not sufficient to use “spokeswoman” or “spokesperson”. It was better (and one editor felt it was the only acceptable option) to use “spokeswomyn” because they held word “woman” should not contain the word “man”. Would most people agree? No, they wouldn’t, and this includes most women at that time in that place, some of whom were turned off by this type of nitpicking and said so. Of course, you can use whatever term you prefer. But you don’t necessarily get to act as sole arbiter and judge for many people, just for one person. That said, no offence was intended and I apologize if you took it in a way that was unintended.

I second this motion and move to add my own amendment; anyone who titles a thread ‘Resolved’ should have their thread taken less seriously.

Eh, it’s the standard way to frame a formal debate.

None of the person I know named Karen objects to the slang term. I don’t see why anyone named Karen would unless they want to demonstrate they represent the derogatory meaning of the name with a juvenile complaint like that.

And ageist.

I’m okay with the gender-neutral “self-entitled asshole.”

Agree.

I don’t have a major problem with Karen, but it does seem lazy. Not that I haven’t been lazy a few times myself.

Saying it’s “hurtful, bigoted, and sexist” and that it’s a synonym for “bitch” is hyperbolic and ultimately damages the argument.

If you were to instead say “Karen is a gendered insult and we should be avoiding those,” I think more people would agree.

I don’t use the term “Karen” but it’s stretch to label it a misogynistic pejorative, any more than laughing at “Florida Man” is a form of gender hatred.

It reminds me of the attitudes of the 1960s leftists towards upper-middle-to-wealthy women, making them the target for disdainful contempt as if the entirety of class inequality and vapid consumer society were specifically their fault.

See also the tendency of PETA types to spray paint onto women’s mink coats while ignoring guys in leather boots and jackets.

It’s an assertion that certain women are self-immersed and selfish in ways that oppress everyone else, with the implication that if it weren’t for them the oppression wouldn’t be able to persist.

It may not be formulated as an anti-female critique but it ends up functioning as one anyhow.

Count me in with DrDeth.