When doing performance reviews it is usually good to give specific examples (good and bad) and not speak in generalities. If you come across at work the way you are coming across here, I suspect there are a lot of other issues and your boss just picked this one.
Do you really consider responding that you don’t have time the same as standing on your head?
Unless you are right out of college or something you are expected to pick up on what the boss wants, even if it isn’t exactly what he or she says. The proper response in the review would be to say that you didn’t get that they wanted a response either way, and you’ll do that from now on. It isn’t arguing that the boss should be clearer.
You are basically saying that you’re right and the boss is wrong. If the boss asked for something illegal, immoral, or really stupid, arguing might be the right path. But that isn’t happening here. If you aren’t a genius who is vital to the company, I can assure you that an attitude of confrontation is going to put you at the back of the raise list and the front of the layoff list. Making your bosses life harder is not a good recipe for success.
Whether your boss is good or not has no bearing on the matter.
That’s what read receipts are for. That’s on the manager not the OP.
Nice, I don’t post very often around here, and this is why. I bring up a conflict with someone else, then I get insulted. Lovely.
That you’re interpreting this as an insult is just further evidence than @Voyager’s suspicions may be correct.
Seriously? You don’t see an insult in “if you come across at work the way you’re coming across here”? Please explain what I did to earn this kind of hostility? I’m honestly perplexed by what I did that you see as worthy of that kind of comment.
I’m asking questions here, and trying to explain my side of things, and somehow now I’m the jerk? What did I do? Honestly I don’t get it.
An RSVP clearly states they want a yes/no answer, so of course I’d give either a yes or no. This manager did not do that, which is the whole point of this discussion.
So there is no “what if…” way to twist it; the original situation was clearly explained: boss sent out a group email saying “who knows how to do X?” when they should have said “everyone please respond today whether or not you can do X”.
Some people believe in a hierarchical structure where a person’s classification indicates who’s right or wrong, regardless of the facts, and that the boss is always right and you’d better remember it. Those are very toxic places to work. Yes I have (and will continue to ) challenged a boss who was clearly in the wrong but wanted to be right because well, they were the boss. Leaving a company plagued by incompetence is a good thing, especially if part of the expectation of staying there is that you bow your head and act subservient under threat of some sort of harm.
IMO there’s nothing at all wrong with telling the boss they are wrong and you are right; they are just people after all and their minds are just as fallible as anyone else’s. In fact, there are many things a boss needs to be told since because of their position they really don’t have access to that info. How is moral?, do workers have the tools/support they need?, is the current leadership effective for the workers? Someone who has the confidence to be honest is more useful than a yes-man any day. And if the boss’s ego is too fragile to handle the reality that they can be wrong, well, I don’t want to work for that person.
This is one person’s opinion and not at all reflective of what everyone thinks. I don’t even think you’ve given enough info for anyone to form an opinion of how you come across… you’re just asking questions. Seems more to me that someone who believes the boss is always right is grasping at straws to try and convince themselves that you’re wrong… because you just have to be wrong. The personal insults hint at the motivation.
Yes! Thank you mmmiiikkkeee. This guy gets it ^^^
Once it was communicated that this was the expectation, I responded to all of the emails that were along these lines, but I noticed it didn’t happen nearly as often as it used to, so I think my manager got the message. I still felt a little silly responding, “Sorry I am too busy to work on this project” but at least everyone was happy now.
Hmm and now I’m wondering if people read the scenario and put themselves in the position of the manager if that’s what they relate to more in the manager/employee situation.
I’m a manager and, as I said above, I decidedly do not want the pointless replies that your boss was insisting on. Further, I agree that your boss chose poor phrasing to get the result they foolishly wanted.
That said, I question the wisdom of arguing in your performance review(!) and in front of your boss’s boss(!!).
This isn’t a question of “the boss is always right”; it’s a question of “the boss can hurt me a lot more than I can hurt them and maybe antagonizing them isn’t the right play.”
A few thoughts on this -
- There are many jobs where managers have very little clue what you actually do. Performance reviews are really uncomfortable all around when this is the case. To preserve the illusion of a functioning manager-employee relationship, they’ll often choose to focus on something measurable but superficial, and possibly a test of your obedience.
- Emails are fantastic for the above purpose! I once had a manager who micro-managed the format of a system outage report down to the font size, color, and spacing. I thought it was stupid, but it was easy to comply, and it got us both out of talking about substantive things we both knew my manager was clueless about.
- To me this also has a whiff of "I don’t know if this guy is doing any work. Let’s ask him to do something trivial like answering email. We’ll find out what he’s doing, or at least get receipts of what he isn’t doing.
Hopefully you can now see that you screwed up by fighting this. The smart thing to do would be to shrug your shoulders, make a form template, and respond to each and every email by saying "I am 100% booked on project XYZ, and taking on new work would introduce a schedule risk. Copy their director just for funsies to let them know you’re taking it serious. Perhaps they’ll change their tune.
Bottom line: they sign your checks, you communicate as they direct, or find another job. Under those conditions I’d start looking. Sounds like a frustrating place to work, with terrible communications.
I appreciate your input, and it sounds like you are a much more practical manager than what I was dealing with back then. (This was about 10 years ago, thankfully things have changed a lot)
I’m curious about your reaction to arguing in a performance review though. If you told an employee new feedback, that had never been discussed before, and they were confused by the miscommunication, wouldn’t you want them to discuss it with you? What is the typical reaction to a negative performance review? I honestly don’t know how managers expect us to respond to stuff like this, my reviews are normally overwhelmingly positive.
I don’t usually get negative feedback, so on the rare occasion I do, I guess I respond in the wrong way. Am I supposed to just sit there sheepishly and say “I’ll try harder next time”?
In a performance review with middle management, sheepish contrition is always the right answer. Unless you’re ready to start burning bridges.
::Shrug::
It’s ok. Just take the viewpoints which agree with you.
The nice thing about the Dope is the wide range of people with a lot of experience in life. Many of us have been (or are) middle management and are providing another feedback, but it’s your raise at stake, not ours.
It would get possible to show specifics where there are concerns, but it doesn’t seem you are interested. Good luck.
No, I’m trying to say the impression I get of him is that he is one who will always answer the question asked of him exactly , even if he knows from the last time this happened that if I ask who is coming, I also need to know who isn’t coming. He seems to be the guy who answers " Do you know the time?" with “yes”. ( yes, you’ve seen a million TV shows/movies where someone being prepared to be cross-examined is asked that question and the correct answer is “yes” . The reason is because in daily life, it’s not the correct answer.)
No, he’s saying that if someone asks “Does anyone know the time?” he wouldn’t have thought he’d have to answer, “No I do not know the time.”
There’s a difference between discussing and the way you described it: “They kinda got angry at this point”, “I definitely pushed farther than I should have with the schoolteacher analogy”, “I agree I argued too much about this stupid misunderstanding”. That’s all your characterization of what happened and I’m saying it’s counterproductive. Saying you didn’t understand that’s what was expected is fine. Explaining once why the phrasing confused you is fine. After that, it’s time to decide that what they want is stupid and that you’re going to give it to them anyway.
Did you even get an objectively bad review? Raise and/or bonus were OK? There’s an expectation as a supervisor that you find something to recommend for improvement, even for your highest performers. For a new supervisor conducting a review in front of their boss, the pressure to find something is even stronger. On the other hand, if the raise/bonus was bad, this was the explanation why, and this was the first you’d heard of it, I think you’re lucky not to work for these people anymore.
Cynically, you should understand that in the very unusual dynamic of a review with both your boss and your boss’s boss, nobody in the room is expected to be telling the (full) truth. I’m just guessing at this, but there’s a reasonable chance that when your review was over, the boss’s boss told the boss that their phrasing was poor and contributed to the miscommunication. They (hypothetically) didn’t say anything in front of you so as not to undermine your boss. (Of course they also might have done high-fives on what a great job they both did “managing” you.)
It depends on the individual and their self-awareness. Generally, they’re expecting the negative review (because, unlike your old boss, this isn’t the first they’ve heard of it) and often they’re surprised their review is more favorable than they were expecting.
Or, as is often the case, they’re holding themselves to a far higher standard than I am.
Right, or if you want to get even closer to the original, the question could be “Hey, who’s got the time?” If I’m in a group of several people, I don’t answer. If I’m the only one being asked, then I’ll be like “Sorry man, your guess is as good as mine.”
I didn’t mean to insult you. I’m sure you do great job. However, any performance review that is 100% positive is worthless, no matter how those of us who get it might like it.
I’m trying to give you a perspective on how managers think. Managing your manager is one of the most important things you can learn how to do - and it works for both good managers and crappy ones.
Being a superstar is one way of getting raises and promotions, but since most of us aren’t superstars a better way is to make your bosses life easier. And you manage your boss by figuring what is important to them and helping.
I don’t know about your company, but in all the ones I worked for salary administration was competitive, even if ratings weren’t. You can lose out if your boss doesn’t fight for you, even if he never says anything bad about you.
As someone said, if that was the worst thing in your review, you’re doing pretty well. Why turn it into a big negative?