Return of the King - talkback (spoilers)

Cafe Society
1

Wooo. Just got back from a midnight showing of RotK.

Yes, yes, it was amazing. There were so many things to like that I can’t really organize my thoughts, so here we go.

Great battle scenes, of course. Big audience cheers during many scenes for Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Sam, and Eowyn.

The most bad ass characters this side of badd ass-onia. Gandalf, Aragorn, Sam, and even Eowyn were just plain cool. That’s all there is to it.

Now, I have just a few nits to pick.

  • The Witch King. They make such a huge deal about this guy. He looks cool as hell, he has a sweet voice, and he even seems to have Gandalf a bit spooked. So he’s a tough cookie. Except it turns out all you have to do to kill him is stab him in the face. Well gosh, he sure would have given Gandalf a run for his money.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the scene where he’s killed (even if it’s a bit cheesy), but why was he supposed to be such a big deal?

  • Saruman. AKA “who?” “So, what’s up with Saruman” “Eh, no big deal anymore” “'kay”

I would have liked just a little more in the way of his fate.

  • Battles. I know, I know, but hear me out. By the end of the movie, the battles were getting just a teensy bit old for me.
  1. long inspirational speech
  2. one army charging at another
  3. CLANG
  4. CLANG CLANG CLANG, chaotic editing and people getting chopped up
  5. sound stops, eerie heavenly singing starts up while our heroes look around and watch semi-important characters die in slow motion
  6. battle dies down
  • Giant Spider. Yeah, it was cool, but at this point in the story I just couldn’t bring myself to care that much about Frodo fighting a giant spider. If it had taken place in the first or second movie, I’d have been a lot more engaged.

Other than that and maybe some things I’m forgetting, I thought it was a fantastic movie and a fitting end to the story (keeping in mind that I haven’t read the third book yet, so it might not actually be that great in comparison for all I know).

So, discuss!

*If this thread is redundant, please lock/delete/merge as needed.

2

Eowyn killing the Witch King was done exactly right. Merry should not have been in the final battle though. Very scary! Be warned!

3

Hoo Boy! What a ride!

Like the first two, it’s gonna take a day or so for everything to filter through. A perfect end to a most excellent triology.

I do admit that some of the changes were a bit…jarring, but overall I think PJ pulled it off, as I felt the same way after the first viewing of FotR and TTT. (But this in NO way detracts from the movie, it’s just how my mind goes, "oh, OK, that was different.’)

I thought the handling of the Witch King, and the Crack of Doom were handled expertly, and certain lines I was hoping would be there were definately there.

As for the whole removal of the scouring, IMHO it doesn’t hurt the ending one damned bit.

I’m still just in awe of what Peter Jackson has done with Triology, and how damn well he did it, in giving us these beautiful movies.

I have several Nitpicks, but for me they’re minor, the biggest one that had me going “huh?” was the shaft of light from Minas Morgul when the Witch King rode out with the army.

Also, I think, no, I KNOW the EE version is going to be BURSTING with added scenes. If you’ve read the books, and you understand the changes that PJ has done, you can practically tell what’s going to be in the EE DVD.

One last thing, the final words uttered in the movie, was the ONLY way IMHO that they could have ended it.

Damn, now I have to go see it again!

4

I liked some of Gimli’s lines.

“Almost certain death. Slim chance of victory. What are we waiting for?”
“There’s plenty for both of us. May the best dwarf win!”
“Hey Legolas, how do you get down off an oliphaunt?”

I love the beacon scene. For some reason I really like those kinds of beacons, and seeing it like that was most inspiring. Beacons, lighthouses, and windmills. If I ever see a scene with all three, I can die happy.

But I think some of the sweeping shots of Minas Tirith were my favorite in any of the three films.

5

The Smeagol Has Landed!!!

← has benn waiting ALL YEAR to say that!!!
:smiley:

6

Saw the whole trilogy yesterday – oh, my! – and I have to say ROTK was one of the most satisfying movies of my life! Yes, taking out the spoiling of the Shire changed a lot of the ending – but it also was, to be honest, a bit anticlimactic in terms of dramatic tension, so probably only the real Tolkien purists are going to be screaming about its removal. As it was, the bigger theme that Peter Jackson emphasized, good vs. evil, was the one that was wrapped up so incredibly satisfyingly that I started sniffling when the eagles appeared over the battlefield and didn’t stop till the end of the movie!

shy guy, the whole thing about the difficulty killing the Witch King was that no man could kill him. It took a hobbit and a woman.

Oh, my. Now to go to work, pretend I really was sick yesterday, and sit around and think about the movie some more!

7

I was thrilled with the entire movie, with a few exceptions: Peter Jackson has worked so hard to make the CG believable, and he’s suceeded greatly. No “Yoda-kung-fu” defying physics, large things move slowly and with great momentum, etc.

And then Legolas decides that rather than, say, shooting the driver off the oliphaunt, which had just worked very nicely, he’s going to scale the sides of a four-storey tall moving animal, conduct archery practice, fire three arrows at point-blank range through a skull that (to scale) is on the order of a foot thick, and then gracefully jog and slide off the trunk?

Sorry. I would have preferred if he’d fired his grappling cable up into the passenger compartment and used his lightsaber to disembowel it. Or if Eowyn and Pippin had teamed up to tie ropes around their legs.

In Fellowship there’s the great scene where Legolas stands atop the Cave Troll. Fine, I can handle that. His wacky mounting-a-moving-horse-by-flipping in Towers was a little over the top. This oliphaunt thing really broke the mood for me. Especially the incongruity of Gimli telling him that “it still only counts for one” despite the fact that taking out the oliphaunt and its crew was really closer to a dozen.

8

The one time it worked, it was because the driver happened to fall and get caught in the reins, pulling the oliphaunt to the left until it crashed into another. (It reminded me of something out of Indiana Jones.) I don’t think they would have left the drivers so unshielded if that was all it took.

9

Saw the midnight showing, got home at 4 am, couldn’t sleep because I was too wound up, and am now consuming copious amounts of caffeine and draggin ass at work.

BUT IT WAS WORTH IT!!!

10

Fantastic film. See also http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=227675&highlight=lotr+rotk

11

So did anyone else hum the Mulan theme song at certain points? Thought for sure an avalanche was going to wipe out the army of Mordor.

12

I thought of that, and I’d be fine with that if the Witch King actually did anything. Maybe in th extended version he’ll have more to do, but it seemed to me like it was buildup, buildup, buildup, and then he dies in like 5 seconds.

13

He does kill Theoden. I see what you’re saying, though.

14

Yeah, and like I said, I love the scene where he dies, it’s amazing. It’s just that if he’s such a big bad, I’d like to have seen him flex his muscles a little more before meeting his end. It would have made what Eowyn did even more impressive, imo.

I guess I was just looking forward to a bigger display of his power. But again, it didn’t ruin the scene for me or anything.

I’m likely going to see it again tonight, and I’m really looking forward to it. I think a second viewing is really needed for me to sort out exactly what I think about everything. At the moment, I think I ultimately prefer Two Towers of the three, but that may change.

15

Well, in the books the Witch King’s/Nazgul’s power was in inspiring fear, dread, and hopelessness on the other side, sapping thier will to fight at all.

I haven’t seen RotK yet (5 hours to go – I’m gonna burst!), but JP didn’t seem interested in portraying this part of the Nazgul’s power. The only hint we’d gotten was in FoTR when the black rider is sniffing for Frodo and friends in the woods, and all the insects start swarming away in fright, and IMHO it didn’t really work all that well. Not that I’d do much better. :slight_smile:

16

That does clear things up some, thanks.

While we’re on the subject, if the only requirement for being able to kill a Nazgul is not being a man, shouldn’t Gandalf be able to do it, too? I mean, wizards aren’t technically men, are they?

17

Well yes, he probably could have, but in the book right as Gandalf and the Witch king where about to go at it they both got distracted.

Gandalf had to go take care of Denethor and his pyre, and The Witch King had to go deal with the charge of the Rohirrim

In fact when its all over Gandalf does comment on how he could have prevented alot of misery caused by the Witch King if he hadn’t been busy elsewhere.

18

i liked the movie. but. i’m really just holding out for the extended editions these days…after seeing ttt ee, i was much much much happier with pj & co, because often my favourite parts were cut short or cut out completely in the theatrical versions.

what i really wanted to see that wasn’t there:
-when aragorn takes control of the palantir. they opened the storyline and then they left it hanging.
-what happens when sam has the ring.
-the eowyn/faramir relationship
-eowyn pretending to be a boy
…and of course the scouring of the shire and the whole saruman agenda…hobbits charging, etc. but that i can deal with. because as fun as it is, it’s too much for the films.

what i liked:
-i loved it when they just sat down in the hobbiton bar with their drinks and just looked at each other for a moment.
-merry and pippin’s drinking song and dance. i love hobbits.
-i liked the song pippin sang, altho there was one shot of him that was treading the fine line into divahood, but generally, i thought it was good.

i cant remember what else. i saw it last night at midnight, got back around 4:15, and went to bed. i’m seeing it again on friday.

19

Thanks, Tremmie. At the risk of hijacking my own thread, did Eowyn kill the Witch King in the book like she did the movie?

20

Almost exactly, shy guy. And Merry was there and stabbed the Witch-King in the leg in the book, too.