Revealed: How torture was used to foil al-Qaeda 2010 plot to bomb two airliners 17 minutes before explosion
The former head of MI6 has said torturing suspected terrorists produces “useful information”, as The Independent on Sunday reveals that “real-time” intelligence understood to have been obtained by torture in Saudi Arabia helped to thwart a terrorist bombing on British soil.
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One intelligence source said: “The people in London went back on the phone two or three times to where the interrogation was taking place in Riyadh to find out specifically where the bomb was hidden. There were two Britons there, in immediate communication with where the interrogation was taking place, and as soon as anything happened, they were in touch with the UK. It was all done in real time.”
There is growing frustration on the part of some UK security officials at Britain’s lack of candour about aspects of intelligence work. “There is a lack of understanding in that most people, if they knew about a ticking bomb scenario, would say torture was defensible, yet we insist on saying ‘we never do it’. Yet we are very happy beneficiaries of it,” one official said.
Plus, studies show it doesn’t produce useful information relative to other techniques, so the fact that some sadistic fuck might think it does is as relevant as the climate change deniers. This is a closed issue.
If true, this is one of the reasons for presidential pardons (in the US, at least – I don’t know if they have anything comparable in the UK). Maybe there’s some tiny chance of Jack Bauer situations in the future – and if so, the heroic Jack Bauers of the world will do what they have to do, and we can sort it out later. It should still remain illegal, since in the vast majority of cases it will be both immoral and ineffective.
That’s precisely why it shouldn’t be done period. You have no reason to suspect it will be effective. The idea that you try something that is more likely to give you false information instead of real information because you’re short on time makes no sense.
Your whole argument is post hoc ergo propter hoc. You got useful information, therefore using torture was a valid method to get that information. The fact that you happened on the rare times when something works doesn’t make it the right method to use.
We should not ever use the results to determine if someone deserves a pardon. It’s like saying the attempted murderer should get off because the victim miraculously lived.
So Terr, what about the torture of people who are innocent? You do agree that happens from time to time, right? Please give us your thoughts on how one might make that right.
Here’s what I’d like to see from these so-called moral crusaders who happened to want to use torture for saving lives: if they’re so sure of the good they are doing, then turn yourselves in and stand trial. In most countries, we don’t let someone break one law in order to uphold another. Self-defense isn’t breaking a law, its an exception you get when lives are at stake. But if you see someone stealing, you don’t get to shoot them to stop them. If they want to argue self-defense, then stand trial, present their side and see if a jury agrees with them.
I know that I for one, when looking for someone guaranteed to tell me the unvarnished truth with no regard for how it would affect the image of his nation, will always turn first to a spy.
Seriously, a little less Jack Bauer and a little more John Le Carre will do wonders for your intellectual diet.
I agree with all of this. It doesn’t dispute my post, which is about specific one-in-a-million situations that probably never happened (unless this story is 100% accurate) and probably never will happen. Torture is and should be illegal.
Yes, our enemies believe in torture. And our enemies also believe in smashing antiquities, burning enemy combatants alive after capturing them, sexual slavery of women, and so on. If ISIS jumped off a slippery slope, would you jump off too?
Seems to me that anyone who believes in torture is my enemy, regardless of whether that person is wearing a keffiyeh, an SS uniform, or a suit and tie.