http://www.temple.edu/law/tjstel/2006/spring/v25no1-Torrey-and-McCulley.pdf (Emphasis mine.)
reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit I see. Let me type this slowly for you. If loud pipes do in fact save lives there should be peer reviewed studies that support this. Please cite some of these studies for us to examine.
Not the Doppler effect a peer reviewed study that backs up your position that louder pipes save lives.
If they in fact do it should be a trivial matter for you to find some.
Good grief… Here it is, the year of our Lord two-goddamn-thousand-and-thirteen, and we’re still having “HURR LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!!11!one” arguments.
For those just tuning in, it is my sad duty to report that ignorance is winning.
It appears you don’t understand what the Doppler effect is. It has nothing at all to do with volume levels.
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Another ignorant tough guy sitting behind a keyboard I see. How about you get me a cite to show they don’t.
I linked to a study – chockfull of footnotes and citations, BTW – that says loud pipes do not save lives.
Perhaps you could link to a similar study that supports your opinion.
It’s hard to read when your eyeballs are still jiggling.
In 2006, 2,537 (51%) of all motorcycles involved in fatal crashes collided with another type of motor vehicle while in motion. In two-vehicle crashes, 79% of the motorcycles involved were impacted in the front. Only 5% were struck in the rear.
In 2006, 51% of all two-vehicle crashes involving a motorcycle and a passenger vehicle in which the motorcycle operator died, were intersection crashes.
In two-vehicle motorcycle crashes involving a motorcycle and another type of vehicle, in 40% of the crashes the other vehicle was turning left when the motorcycle was going straight, passing, or overtaking the vehicle.
With the last two examples I contend that loud pipes may have alerted the driver to the presence of the motorcycle.
If you don’t ride you don’t understand that when you get in a situation like this there is very little time to react. People pull out in front of you at the last second. Defensive driving courses are alright, but nothing makes up for experience, you have to instantly override the panic and drive your way out of the situation, and most people can’t do that. A few hours of classroom theory and a bit of on-course work really are not going to help much if you panic.
Back upon a time when there were more 2-strokes on the street, they had some cause of doing the “wing-dingy-dingy” blipping of the throttle as we called it. Otherwise the plugs would foul out on a daily basis. It was bad enough that Harley put two plugs in the Aramachi <sic?> ones so that when you fouled out one plug, you just moved the cap to the second and restarted.
I’ll blip my Sportie a bit when its cold but that’s just because I’m too cheap and lazy to actually repair the choke or sit and wait for the engine to actually get to heat.
I am pro helmet, but they are not going to help in a lot of accidents, except maybe keeping your face in one piece.
Headlights on have been the law here since the eighties I think.
And once again if you don’t ride you don’t understand. If someone cuts you off and you have time to use your horn, you have time to drive out of the situation. Your focus should be completely on saving your ass, not warning a driver that you are there, when it’s obviously too late.
None of those (un-cited) examples indicate that loud pipes would have reduced those collisions.
There’s a fair chance I’ve been riding longer than you have been alive. (I have no way of knowing, of course; but there’s a better than average chance.) I have well over 100,000 miles of riding in L.A. traffic, in addition to my other riding. I have been in ‘situations like this’, and I can assure you that I understand how much time there is to react. Horns work wonders, as do good riding practices.
You have two different options for bikes that have been around for years.
One is more like that the first poster describes. At idle you can barely tell the motor is running if you are sitting beside it in your average cage with the windows up. At 5000rpm (or where-ever) the baffles partly (or completely) fold and the same bike could rattle your glass, teeth, eyeballs and everything else depending on the wishes of the rider and/or his/her mechanic. They are basically like a turbo-booster for passing. Being one who doesn’t want to be beside that semi any longer than necessary I have owned a couple pair. They are hard to get and cost like Hell.
The cheapie backyard mechanics answer to the above — cut-offs. A little metal work where the downtube of the exhaust turns to run parrallel with the ground. Switch in one position and the exhaust goes through the whole pipe including the muffler. Switch in the other position and the exhaust is vented straight down long before it reaches the muffler. Check some of the old hot rod books for the exact plans; many a flathead ran those long before the bike crowd caught on.
(40+ years riding and AMA Charter Life member. For the record, when your pipes are so loud that you or the rider behind you needs earplugs you are basically an ass. And don’t give me that “wind noise” crap. That may be true for a few folks who wear plugs but I am way skeptical of the percentage.)
That’s not the way it works around here. You made the claim so it is up to you to support it with facts. Once again this is GQ we deal in facts. So put up or shut up.
In light of post 61 good luck.
Yes, I had a '73 Kawasaki 350 S2 for a while.
I read someplace, maybe even heard it from a BIL who works in the insurance industry at a high job, told me that the majority ( at least 51% or more ) of accident & fatal accidents in riders from the age of 16 to 26, on the street were caused by the rider. ( I do not know about babies on dirt bikes or the new interest in hare scrambles for kids. Very little car traffic there anyway. )
Next most dangerous to themselves are the crotch rocket riders,
Safest to themselves are over 30 types on cruisers. They are mostly hit by normal vehicles & are less than 20% responsible for the accident if the accident is in a place that splits the responsibility or not at fault at all. ( Over 51% of the accident & fatal accidents ) Even with helmets, florescent clothing and pulsing lights they are still hit by the , I didn’t see him, crowd. than any other set.
One data point:
Wife follows me a lot in a truck and motorist that almost clip me from behind for no reason are conspicuous by their large numbers.estio
Wither loud pipes save lives or not is nor more able to be known for sure than if guns in homes cause more deaths than they save.
People have a fixed idea about these two things and many others things that no amount of argument will change their minds.
A lot depends on ones personal life experiences.
A lot of motorcycles around here. Maybe on a bad day, one in 1000 will have STRAIGHT pipes.
More HD’s will have modified exhaust. Noise is more in the ear of the beholder. If you live in the big cities or Calif. where the nuts & assholes are, then you made the choice to live among them.
Move out to God’s country and you can have your peace & quiet.
( buy your houses next to the airports & then complain about the noise much? he he he )
IMO, if you are going to legally go after noise and do not pursue audio systems with the same vigor you do motorcycles, then you are a hypocrite of the worst order.
You may want to look up the definition of hypocrite
I finally got around to reading your “cite”. I suggest you read it yourself, it’s a one sided article written by presumably by a lawyer with an agenda. Most of the footnotes and citations are unsearchable and lead nowhere.
I’ve seen various stuff that agrees and disagrees with all that. One thing the stats do seem to show is that per x number of accidents, more result in the fatality of the biker than say back in the 70s. We had a conference at the AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) headquarters debating the why of that and the reasons come down to.
A) Bikes are bigger and more powerful now. The 450cc and unders are basically all gone and its no surprise to have someone start on a Harley 883 or bigger as their first bikes.
B) Sport bikes. Back in the day, if you wanted a racing bike, you had to build one or have one built for you. Now you can buy one basically cheaper than some standard cruisers and tourers. Thats like handing the keys to a Boxster to some dude on a learners permit or a Beetle owner - the result could be very very bad.
C) How few people today start riding in dirt. Dirt taught us how to fall and walk away in circumstances that were fairly safe. When we got to the road, and all the other options and doors were closed, we knew how to lay it down and minimalize injury. In the MSF courses, instructors are encouraged not to even mention such an option so folks are hitting stuff still full upright and still in their seat.
Of the three, I think A and C is the biggies IMHO.
Would say more but like any old rider, time flies. And I have a funeral to attend this weekend. Older I get, the more it seems I have to say that.
A bike sliding on it’s side on asphalt will go much further than braking from the same speed.
The fact is, even if the other driver is totally at fault, it’s a rare accident that an attentive rider could not have avoided getting into the situation in the first place.
(bolding mine)
Maybe in your part of the world. :dubious:
I’ve had three ‘incidents’ in which the other driver was totally at fault, and there was not any ‘lack of attention’ on my part at any time. Two of them ended up being a fork crushing, ‘crash’. :eek:
The first one was when I was only about 19 yrs old, a car ran a stop sign and crossed in front of me. I hit it in the right rear quarter panel at about 20-25 mph, flew across the trunk, hit the ground on my right shoulder, rolled and came up running in order to keep from being run over by the traffic behind me. Bruised up with a bit of road rash,
but other than that I was OK.
The second time was in 2005, an S-10 pickup turned left directly in front of me, I hit the truck between the cab and the right rear wheel at 40-45 mph, went straight over the handlebars, across the bed of the truck and as I went over the far side of the bed, I caught the top edge of the truck bed with my left wrist. 
I now have a 6 1/2" x 1 1/2" metal plate w/11 screws holding my wrist bones together.
The third time I managed to keep from dropping it, only by the grace of
God and many years and miles of experience.
Houston, Texas is not a bike friendly town to ride in.
IMHO, the auto drivers in Dallas are much better at sharing the road with motorcycles.