We are so fucked. The worst part is that the Neo-cons and their supporters like Bush(who is only a tool of the neo-cons), are maniacally rubbing their hands together at the prospect of another holy war.
Lovely!
Sam
I’m sure Iran will pick up the nuance too.
If their highest priority wasn’t getting a nuke, it is now.
I know it’s hard not to just rip on Bush in every thread as an unconscious reaction, but what are you proposing Bush should do? Wait until a Democrat is in office? Bring them to the negotiating table and offer them nuclear reactors? Is there some other option that’s been recommended that he’s missing?
I still don’t hear any other options being offered by either party. The US said it would use diplomatic means, but didn’t rule out a strike. Seems reasonable.
That does not sound reasonable. Seems it’s strike or allow Iran to have nukes - the real question is why do people here want a nuclear armed Iran? Because Bush is against it?
Prepare for a future in which they will have nukes. This isn’t to say don’t put enormous pressure on them (behind the scenes), but stop this bullying crap, it’s backfiring. If the Bush admin has done anything it’s to make the deterent power of nukes more appealing to other countries. Just like a stubborn child, when you tell someone not to do something, it’s the first thing they’ll want to do now, even of they didn’t want to do it before.
I’d like more psychology to be employed in predicting possible ramifications.
Considering that this administration wants to develop more nukes, what gives us the moral authority to say another country can’t have them?
Are you stating that the United States and Iran are equivalent governments? That the US is no better than Iran?
Oh, you mean the one that’s “irrelevant”?
Maybe it’s because we can’t hold ourselves to any sort of Nuclear pacts and we’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites. I think it’s bad enough that we maintain our old nukes, and the first thing Bush did after 9/11 was start talking about developing more. How on earth can we judge other countries who want to arm? We’re like the biggest, dumbest bullies on the block and we’re continually making mistakes like this.
Hell, maybe if we hadn’t decided to take up arms against their neighbors, it would have delayed their nuke program. Instead, the west infiltrated the mid east and now theyr’e developing mukes. Yay us!
Sam
Maybe it’s because we can’t hold ourselves to any sort of Nuclear pacts and we’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites. I think it’s bad enough that we maintain our old nukes, and the first thing Bush did after 9/11 was start talking about developing more. How on earth can we judge other countries who want to arm? We’re like the biggest, dumbest bullies on the block and we’re continually making mistakes like this.
Hell, maybe if we hadn’t decided to take up arms against their neighbors, it would have delayed their nuke program. Instead, the west infiltrated the mid east and now theyr’e developing mukes. Yay us!
Sam
Depends who you ask I guess.
Definitely.
It worked with Libya 
I guess it’s my “those fuckers are crazy” upbringing, but I don’t want any countries in that region to have nukes - even Israel. Way too much so-called religous bickering and promises of heaven to let them get that advanced.
Better to stop it now than let it grow - but if you are in a roundabout way saying you are pro-SDI, hey, I agree with you.
Uh, I think that horse is already out of the barn.
Iran ratified the nuclear non-proliferation treaty in 1970, and has allowed iaea inspectors in since 1992. The treaty looks to allow peaceful uranium enrichment activities:
If Brazil can operate enrichment facilities, why not Iran?
How is what Condi said any different from “putting enormous pressure on them”? She didn’t actually launch an attack; she just talked about it in such a way that it puts pressure on Iran to negotiate with the EU in good faith.
Because we don’t hold ourselves to out-dated arms pacts that were nigh irrelevant, any other country is justified in pursuing a nuclear arms program? Maybe we should let Cuba have nuclear arms, because we are bullies, and have no moral high ground anymore.
So, let me get this straight - if we didn’t invade Iraq, Iran wouldn’t be pursuing a nuclear arms program with such fervor? So them going about it at a leisurely pace is acceptable, but them hurring up isn’t and the US bears the blame? Sounds suspicous.
Yeah, 'cause last time this Administration tried to put pressure on another country to cooperate with the UN, we had no designs whatsoever on attacking them anyway, right? :rolleyes: Personally, if I were leader of a nation that the US has traditionally had chilly relations with, I’d pretty much consider every twitchy move by anyone in the presently constituted Departments of State and Defense, or the White House itself, to be a reason to drop into defensive mode…
Too late. We’re going to have to learn how to deal with a world in which many, if not most, if not all nations have nuclear weapons. We’re going to have to learn to deal with a world in which a limited nuclear war is likely to happen. (Pakistan-India, anybody?) The non-proliferation treaty is worth exactly the intent of a signatory to abide by it, and a sovereign nation which wishes to develop nuclear weapons as an item in its defense arsenal is going to do so. Get used to it.
Here´s a brilliant idea I just had, STOP THREATING OTHER COUNTRIES WITH WAR.
I think that would help to chill things a bit; just as if someone looks funny at you, you don´t shout “I´ll smash your face, punk!” if you are interested to keep things from escalating, that´s actually a good way to look for a fight.
But that´s just me.
There’s a big difference between “allowing to” and “giving incentive to” develop nukes. Check out our current rhetoric, we’re not screwing with Cuba so leave them out of it. Right now we’re implying to them that they’re next on our list. They take a look around and see NK and Iraq, and they say shit we better get these things running so no one will fuck with us.
All countries are the same in many respects, because humans are the same in many respects. We loudly go bully them and tell this or that, and they’ll flip us the bird and do the opposite. Imagine if someone started telling America, you can’t do this, you better not do this. What do you think we’d want to do? Do the very thing they’re talking about just to piss them off. Well I’m sure Iran ain’t much different in that respect.