Right now we’re implying to IRAN that they’re next on our list. They take a look around and see NK and Iraq, and they say shit we better get these things running so no one will fuck with us.
Let 'em have 'em. They’re gonna have 'em anyways. That’s the solution? With nuclear bombs? Something I’m missing, I guess :dubious:
Funny how positions on the surface have appeared to reverse on this issue – with GWB fighting nuclear proliferation and his detractors… finding it acceptable that more countries gain access to nuclear weapons. Very interesting!
No you’re missing the point totally. What Bush is doing is making them seek nukes faster!
Shit, by our preemptive war logic, Iran would be within it’s rights to strike us. How warped is that? This is specifically why you don’t let the genie out of the bottle.
Who else is there to STOP a country from getting nuclear bombs? The UN won’t move - the onus is on America to do the dirty work. How are we going to disarm Iran - passing 18 resolutions? Nobody has a better solution. We never threatened N. Korea, yet they ended up with nukes anyhow - even after all the negotiating/stalling.
America - World Police. :rolleyes:
Yes, you’re missing a capacity to think. In a perfect world, our telling a country “don’t build nukes or else” would work. Hell, in a perfect world, nobody, including us, would have nukes. We aren’t in that world, and in the real world, countries will do what they think they need to do to defend themselves. Invading every country that wants nukes would be a fruitless task. And stupid.
And you’re a dumbass. We’ve been threatening North Korea for 55 years.
I would’ve sworn that just a few days ago someone else in the Bush admin. had said that military options were NOT on the table wrt Iran. Anyone else remember this?
Technically, they are still saying that. The overt threat is to take Iran to the U.N. Security Council. We all remember what happened the last time we did that, don’t we?
If that was what this was about, I’d be all for it. Unfortunately, that’s not what this is about.
As for your previous reply to me, did you miss the word ‘maybe’ in the sentence you quoted? IMO, there is no doubt that our military and political actions in the middle east have bolstered their resolve against us and spurred on their attempts at developing nukes to protect themselves against us. But opinions are like assholes…
Sam
The thing that really bugs me about this whole issue with Iran is that they, along with North Korea, were the obvious threats all along. Even back in the “Iraq has WMDs,” I do not recall anyone seriously suggesting that they were within months of producing nuclear weapons, if they did not already have them (okay, no one seriously suggesting that outside of the fearmongering implications coming from certain far right nut balls).
If Bush hadn’t decided to take the nation on a personal crusade to avenge the assassination attempt on his father, we could actually be doing something about Iran right now.
Oh good, a bunch of fucking religious nuts might launch a nuke somewhere, but hey, we made a tiny chunk of sand safe for democracy. Well, kind of safe. Well, not really that safe, but they won’t fuck with my dad again!
Uh, these countries were pursuing weapons programs regardless. Anyone who thinks its America’s fault Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons has an agenda (Iran has lots of other enemies besides the US. We’re not the only agressor in the world.) North Korea built NW’s right under the UN’s nose - and negotiations did nothing. Iran is building NW’s right now. Think we shouldn’t do something?
Germany was telling USA not to invade Iraq, so now by your logic we were justified? Now it’s Germany’s fault we invaded and hey, it’s now Germany’s fault Iran is pursuing a NW program! We’ll tell 'em it was human nature and all that. But countries don’t work that way.
Iran is in NO way justified persuing a NW program. The only country responsible is Iran.
Yes, in your opinion there is no doubt that our military and political actions in the Middle East have bolstered their resolve against us, but who thinks that there was great love for us before - we were/are the great Satan west. If we hadn’t invaded Iraq, Iran would be building nuclear arms to protect against their enemy Israel, or Syria, or Iraq, or “the West” in general.
They are now moving faster because the USA threatened them if they do not cease their program - could be true! But is their NW program a new thing because the US showed up and ruined their party? No - they were pursuing nuclear weapons before we invaded Iraq (but it’s the US that sez it, and who can trust them?) This isn’t a new thing. The only options are: withdraw and let them continue at a slow pace, invade and stop them completely, or threaten and have them continue at a rapid pace.
I hate to say this (because I’d hate for anyone to think that this is becoming a trend of some kind on my part), but I have to agree with those who say that it’s ridiculous to think that Iran’s nuclear program would be nonexistent, or even any slower, if there had been no Iraq invasion, if Rice had kept her mouth shut, etc. I just don’t think things are working that way there, and probably haven’t since it was publicized that Israel had nukes.
That said, Rice’s phrasing was needlessly antagonistic, and military options (even if we could spare the resources) would be completely boneheaded - so much so that I don’t think even Bush and his advisors are able to. (Note: not “want to” - “able to.” And this is without conspiracy theories coming into play that would allow them to - I prefer to discuss stuff in rational terms.) Especially given that CNN is running a breaking news banner that says that North Korea has, for the first time, claimed to have nukes…
Why not?
Why is the US the only ones who are justified ?
You have a very weird few of the world.
You do realise that their are other countries in the world?
And that these are not governed by BushCo?
Just checking. :wally
I didn’t say it’s America’s fault. All I’m saying is if the US is making all these veiled threats towards Iran, don’t be surprised if they say “shit we might get attacked, hurry up with the fucking nukes!”
So then we might as well go attack today then.
I think we shouldn’t intimate that we might attack.
Frankly, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about here.
More likely than who?
IIRC, Kerry suggested supplying them with the fuel that they are going to make. That way they wouldn’t need to build the processors to to create the stuff and what was sent into the country could be monitored.
Actually, Bush said that Iraq was six months away from having nukes. He said that he read it in an IAEA report that does not and did not exist. He was, of course, “imprecise.”
More likely then themselves. I’m not saying they could be fully trusted before, but the louder we talk, I think the likelyhood increases.
Look - what is sauce for the goose etc. I don’t know where you people get this US Exceptionalism, the rules don’t apply to us crap. How many countries has Iran attacked recently, how many vile murdering dictatorships has it propped up in the last 50 years? The US has ceded the moral highground a long time ago, now it, in the manifestation of itself as foreign policy, is the biggest bully on the block with no claims at all to superiority.
Actually, with all the bellicose rethoric the US is sending their way – along with Isarel’s not-so-veiled threats – IMO, they are amply justified in bolstering their defensive capabilities up to and including nuclear capabilities. Mind you, it’s NOT Iran that’s making threats against other nations.
Moreover, there’s the little lesson of Iraq and NK to consider = no nukes, US will invade, take over your country, openly admit to having them, earns you the US’s respect.
Just becuase BushCo has unilaterally decided to play World’s Cop, doesn’t mean other nations have to subjugate to those desires – quite the contrary, as has been mentioned plenty of times in the past, all he’s doing is launching a new arms race.
I guess congrats are in order…
Is there any actual evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program? John Bolton’s been frothing about this supposed program for a couple of years, but there’s been precious little to back him up, and now he’s out. Obviously Iran’s been working on a uranium enrichment program, but the obvious civilian uses of that technology preclude any but rabidly paranoid asshats from casually calling that a ‘weapons program’.