Rich/Famous Folks Licensing their Names

I posted this in a different thread. Please excuse the grift comment as potential well-poisoning.

I’m genuinely curious whether anybody has made quite so much money as the Trump family simply on licensing their names. When Trump-branded hotels began changing their names to avoid the negative associations, it was news to me that Trump didn’t actually own them - he’d just accepted a bunch of money to allow the use of his name.

This has been his MO for a long time. From a 2018 Forbes article:

After multiple bankruptcies, Trump adroitly turned his business toward real estate management and licensing, slapping his name on other people’s buildings, ties, steaks and even a urine test—allowing him to make money while others take all the financial risk.

This is different than simple sponsorships, where a famous person is paid to flog a product. It’s different than a cologne company naming a particular scent after somebody. It’s different than giving a wealthy person a token position on a board of directors. These are businesses paying for the implication that they are not only approved by Trump, but owned and operated by him.

Who else does this? And do any of them do it to a similar extent and across such a wide variety of projects? He didn’t even stick to real estate, which he’s famous for. So it’s not even quite analogous to Fred Astaire’s dance studio franchises, which continued using his name even after he left the company.

Trademark and brand licensing is very common, especially in the hotel industry, but also for food service. Most of the hotels and motels you see are using brand names that they have licensed from someone else.

Indeed, the brand name of a hotel, the owner of the hotel property, and the company that actually runs the hotel are often three completely different entities.

I mean, this is essentially what we call franchising. And it’s standard practise for restaurants and fast food.

Now, in a proper trademark licensing/franchising arrangement, the owner of the trademark is supposed to closely monitor and police standards of goods and services provided by the licensee. Otherwise, this becomes naked licensing, and in a naked license situation, you have basically given up your trademark to someone else; it’s no longer your trademark.

I don’t know how closely Trump monitors his licensees, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many of his arrangements amount to naked licensing.

Most companies that offer concrete goods or services–like hotels and restaurants–limit the scope of their licenses, because the more different kinds of goods and services you are licensing for, the less likely it is that you are going to be able to reasonably monitor the quality and standards.

But, look, for example, at entertainment products. Look at the wide range of goods and services licensed by, say, musicians/music groups, TV/movie franchises, etc. So what Trump is doing is not really unique in that sense.

That’s, more or less, how Miss Cleo got so big, so fast. While the Miss Cleo you’ve come to know and love is an actual person, for the most part she was little more than their mascot. By the time they were running nationwide commercials, she had little to do with them and, in fact, was even sued for using the Miss Cleo character on her own (in commercials for entirely unrelated things) since she no longer own that name/likeness.

I watched this doc a week or so ago and really liked it.

I understand the compulsion to go to another con artist for an analogy to Trump, but Miss Cleo was just another employee of that company when she created a character. What Trump does is more of a Chuck Taylor or George Foreman deal except he’s a lot more diversified.

I thought of that, but in this case it would be like McDonald’s allowing me to open a McDonald’s-branded barbershop.

Cool, yep. This appears to the exact term for what he does.

I didn’t say anything about her being a con artist and didn’t mean to imply that. For the purpose of this discussion, I was just talking about how the company was using her name and likeness.

That’s pretty much exactly what I said.

Well didn’t the McDonalds brothers lose the rights to the McDonalds brand by being out played by Ray Kroc? I’d say that the McDonalds brand name is worth a lot more than the Trump brand name.

Even if so, that wasn’t a case of rich/famous persons licensing their name out for other business ventures (as per the OP), but more a case of relatively small-time businessmen losing control of a company which bore their name.

I can’t recall the details but didn’t the McDonalds accept the franchising of their name in the beginning, only to be outplayed when they didn’t own the land that the buildings sat on. They did have a word of mouth fame in their market in California.

Another I can think of is Mark Levenson, he had a level of fame in the audio business with Lexus premium sound systems, then sold the rights to his name and lost the ability to make sound systems under his own name. But not nearly as big as Trump.

I guess maybe I’m confused by the OP and what he is looking for.

McDonald’s might not have gone as far as barbershops, but it has licensed branded goods from time to time, like toys.

I don’t know all the details, either, but yes, they had hired Kroc to handle franchising their restaurant concept; it turned out that Kroc was much more aggressive than they were, and when they disagreed with Kroc (including the fact that they wanted to keep the chain small), he forced them out of their own company.

As I noted, “relatively small-time businessmen.” “But, we’re famous in San Bernardino!”

I think he’s looking for other examples in which:

  • The person licensing their name is/was already famous before starting to license their name
  • They license their name to a number of different business ventures/products
  • Many of the licensed ventures/products have no connection at all to the area in which the famous person has any fame or expertise
  • The licensees are making some level of implication to their potential customers that the famous person is somehow directly involved in the operation or ownership of their company, rather than just a simple endorsement

I wonder how much that is true in Trump’s case.

What follows is certainly NOT expert opinion, more a mishmash of memories plus (IMO plausible) guesswork.

Trump himself has always been loudly but cagily boastful about “his” hotels, golf courses, etc. Even unto today. To hear him tell it, he built them with his massive hands, financed them with his massive money, and owns every crumb in every cupboard. None of which is remotely true and has not been for decades.

How much do the actual hotel operating companies, the ones who make marketing decisions, really just push the brand called Trump, versus pushing the idea Trump himself is in charge or involved?

The Caesar’s Palace casino in Vegas was famous early back in the 1970s for building the “Caesar’s lifestyle” brand. It was Roman kitsch. It was faux-luxo. And you could stay there, eat there, and buy merch their all implying that you too were part of the lifestyle of a rich late 20th Century Roman bigwig. Best of all, other than being a tad pricier than other similar products / properties, it was faux-exclusive; anybody could buy a logo’ed t-shirt and still feel like part of the in-crowd behind the velvet rope.

The Trump brand for hotels, resorts, golf & such is really just Excessive Rococco Goldtone-plated Kitsch (hereinafter ERGK which is a noise a lot like retching). ERGK is now the middle class imagines the yacht set lives and is how the country club set aspires to live. Or at least that’s how it’s peddled to them. The Donald isn’t part of that, IMO never was much part of that, and especially not after 2015.

IMO …

Back when he was building the brand and running the hotels & casinos he ran out of business, his marketing message was all about his personal magic Midas touch. once he went to brand licensing, I think that was probably part of how he (more like how his people) sold himself to the hotel marketers, not how the hotel marketers sold to the public.

Anyone caring to shoot this conjecture full of holes, please be my guest.

For hotels, maybe. But for stuff like Trump University there was definitely the implication that you’d be receiving wisdom straight from Midas. When he launched his (very quickly defunct) travel website in 2006, he said, “I will find you the great travel deals, whether you are looking to book a luxury getaway or just want the best rate on airlines and hotels worldwide,” and its featured hotels were supposedly Trump’s favorite luxury properties to visit.

Gene Simmons, of KISS music fame, is a prolific licenser.

ETA: And Simmons himself proposes an additional name to add to the list: Walt Disney.

Mark Levinson had a business in high end audio - founded in 1972 - with his name, and he sold the entire business, including the name, to Harmon Kardon (now owned by Samsung). Mark wasn’t the key designer, in the early days that was audio design legend John Curl.
Harmon own other major brands, such as JBL. Harmon make car sound systems, and have a deal with Lexus for supply of systems, which they brand with Mark Levinson. Nobody imagines these units ever saw the inside of the real ML business. HK make a lot more that are not so branded. HK is itself a respected brand name. The core high end audio company named Mark Levinson still exists, still located in the USA, and still makes eye wateringly expensive audio gear. Mark himself almost immediately founded another high end company, Cello. Everyone knew he was the guy behind Cello, but ML did and still does very well.

In the context of the OP, this is a very common thing. If you found a business and name it after yourself, most buyers are going to want the brand name along with the business. So you sell your name, at least in the context of the business. Brand recognition may account for a very significant component of the value. So Mark Levinson is written on the centre console of my Lexus.

Naked licensing is of course different. There is no IP or business other than the name.

I think I remember, back when Trump was making his first run for office, that as part of his claimed wealth, a value of $10 billion was claimed for his name. Which made up the lion’s share of his assets even then. That is clearly a ridiculous amount, it would imply an ongoing licensing income in the many hundreds of millions a year. I guess his recent tax filings might reveal the real extent of how well his name does.

In the game of being famous for being famous I can’t think of anyone who has matched Trump in leveraging his name. There are companies, and brand names, worth vastly more, but like McDonalds, they are a proper trade name, working in a defined sector and defending the trade name in that sector.

Don’t huge numbers of brand names fit this category? Many started out as the originator’s personal name but then get licenced out. It’s rife in the fashion industry for example.

It occurs to me that a close equivalent to what Trump has done — and it is not perfectly equivalent, as I will detail, but it’s comparable — is the Martha Stewart brand.

You can find Martha Stewart’s name on hundreds of different products, some exclusively at certain retailers, others sold more broadly. There are knife sets, down jackets, coffee tables, pots and pans, pillowcases, and on and on. Martha Stewart herself does not have a manufacturing company which produces all these goods; the only real product she actively makes on her own is media, books and television. Instead, her model is to examine the marketplace for opportunities, and then she reaches out to an established manufacturer or retailer and offers a proposal. If accepted, this partner takes responsibility for physically producing the item(s), but Stewart’s company sets the design standard and, on approval, grants the partner the right to sell said item(s) using the Martha Stewart brand name, for a fee.

Example: When Stewart was developing her relationship with K-Mart, she suggested that a line of towels be offered under her name, with brighter and softer pastel colors in line with her brand identity. This would contrast with the darker colors K-Mart was already selling (supposedly because their market research showed that K-Mart customers liked a towel they didn’t have to wash as often). No Stewart entity would manufacture the towels and supply them to K-Mart; that was K-Mart’s responsibility. Stewart’s side of the deal was to define the parameters for the product’s design, and then give K-Mart permission to sell it under a name that carried built-in fame and cachet.

This is somewhat similar to the Trump model, in that Trump doesn’t build or manage the majority of the properties that carry (or used to carry) his name. His company contacts the owner of an existing property and asks if they’d be receptive to a re-brand, or the developer of a project in progress and asks if they’d like to use the Trump name when they launch.

Where the Martha Stewart brand is different, though, is found in a couple of factors. First, there are a lot of products, but they’re all very narrowly focused on a particular market niche, “home and lifestyle improvement aimed at the middle class.” Stewart is very careful never to stray outside the boundary of a highly focused identity. Trump, famously, didn’t limit himself to hotels and golf courses.

Second, Stewart takes an active role in maintaining those products after launch, to ensure the design is not changed or compromised over time and to monitor quality levels. It would be damaging to the brand if those K-Mart towels suddenly started bleeding their dyes all over the laundry, for example. In contrast, once Trump grants use of the name and collects his fee, he takes essentially no role in the operations of the properties carrying his brand.

So like I said, it’s not a perfect equivalence, but if you’re considering other examples of the same kind of thing Trump did, Martha Stewart has to be high on the list.

Spy magazine once noted that Paloma Picasso had lent her name to a carpet, which they wryly dubbed “stainmasterpiece”.