“Faith healing”, which would be construed to include faith-based therapy, is generally protected by the First Amendment guarantee of religious freedom.
Also, under Nixon, the US Department of Health (then the Dept. of Health, Education & Welfare) issued a requirement for states to include language in their child abuse/neglect legislation allowing for religious exemptions - ie., preventing parents from being charged and/or punished for failing to obtain medical treatment for their children if they objected on religious grounds. That DoH requirement has long since ended, but few states have repealed the resulting legislation in the interim. I think a couple had the relevant statutes overturned by courts.
Holy shit! They took it down since I posted! I guess that quote was being bandied around the web a bit too much. Thanks for finding it via the Wayback Machine. I love the Wayback Machine.
Oh by the way, this has been open in another window for 2 days, I just hadn’t gotten around to posting it.
This is only a small portion of the very informative blog. I’d highly suggest reading the whole thing.
Can we reach for a consensus, here? I think we can agree that talk of impeachment is, well, premature. So, we’re stuck with him. Still, damn sight better than Johnny Mac, yes? Or, Goddess forbid, Sarah Moosekill.
So, whats gonna be our takeaway? Well-intended, but tone deaf is mine. The more I learn about Mr Warren (whom I will not refer to as “Reverend”, though I’m perfectly happy to extend such courtesy to other Christian ministers), the less I like. On the other hand, we are all a damn cite better off with well-intended but clumsy, yes?
Do we criticize and forgive, or criticize and begrudge? Looks like some pretty rough weather ahead, so its a lead-pipe cinch he’s going to have to make some unpopular decisions, or else make some very, very bad ones. Do we trust him, or no?
According to Mike Rogers, of PageOneQ, the church changed its website in response to Obama’s outreach. Rogers commended Warren for his change in attitude, and Obama for facilitating it.
I don’t think he’s ever promised to solve all of the nation’s problems, just that he was going to approach them differently. He’s not a dicatator, after all. His recognition of that fact, all by itself, makes him tons better than Bush. I say back off and let the man work.
I vote for criticize and begrudge. Even if he does all the wonderful things I think he will, this shouldn’t be forgotten. I don’t know about forgiven. I’m certainly not there yet. To say “fuck you” to people who were already hurting is unforgivable. The fact that it didn’t even occur to him how this would look and feel to gays and their supporters after the painful losses of Prop 8, Arizona, Arkansas and Florida means he has a long LONG way to go in sensitivity training, and all the happy crappy “fierce advocate” bullshit rhetoric doesn’t negate anything. He should know how much this hurts, even if he doesn’t care. Even if the majority of American people don’t care. This hurts bad, and it will continue to hurt no matter how much soothing and cuckling goes on.
Oh, I’m certainly glad he won, don’t misunderstand. The alternative is too horrifying to contemplate. His choices for the science positions and his stance on science in general is in itself enough to make him a billion times better than McCain/Palin, and Bush/Cheney, but all the same, the Warren pick was an incredibly, unbelievably, breathtakingly insensitive boneheaded move. Presidents are allowed to make mistakes, but they shouldn’t be glossed over or forgotten. Bush is going to literally get away with murder. Now THAT’S a crime. Compared to Republicans glossing over and forgetting Bush’s crimes, I think people should give those of us who are angry and upset about a non-crime some space and the benefit of the doubt.
If there are any bright spots at all, it’s that 1) freeper types, who while thrilled that Obama has done something to piss off homosexuals, are really hating on Warren’s ass too, and 2) Warren’s hateful stances are now out there for the world to see. He can hide his hate on his website. He can make kissy kissy nicey nicey with Melissa Etheridge. He can bullshit the blacks at the Martin Luther King Jr. Center. He can be all huggy with his good friend Barack, but his vile bile is now stinking in the sunlight. A whole new group of people will be watching everything he does from now on and keeping track. That’s a good thing.
Obama believes that the way to reach people and have them listen to you in the first place is to change the way we talk and write about the issues that divide us.
Fair-minded words.
Read his Call to Renewal Keynote Address. He closes with an anecdote about receiving some correspondence that caused him to remove some inflammatory language from his own website during the Primary campaign.
He believes his approach holds more promise for success. Nothing else we’ve tried has worked so far, so I’m willing to give his way a chance before condemning it. Obviously its already had an effect on Rick Warren.
I can’t stomach Rick Warren or his hateful, distorted opinions. But neither can I stomach Tom “[The gay] agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today” Coburn, and yet Obama reached out to him to enact the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, which gave us www.usaspending.gov, and earned him a great deal of respect from one of the Rightiest Righties on the Right side of the Right.
We’re not going to change hearts and minds by ostracizing those who we hope to sway.
Come on, choosing a spiritual leader who doesn’t preach hate for the Inauguration Invocation is light years from “ostracizing” religious bigots. Very few people are suggesting ostracizing the fundies (well, I would, since I think they should be shunned out of polite society, but I rightly wouldn’t expect anyone else to agree with me). Have some meetings. Go eat breakfast with them. Continue networking the way he did during the campaign. This is all about Inauguration Day only.
All he’s done by the choice is ostracize a large group of people who were already in pain from being smacked down throughout the centuries and had their happiness on Election Day dashed with the cold burning water of hate and exclusion. Now millions can’t fully enjoy Inauguration Day either knowing what a horrific bigot Warren is. I know they don’t matter to most people and should just “get over it” but if I, a non gay, am having real problems coming to terms with this, I certainly can’t blame those who are affected every day by predjudice and hate and are hurting much much more than my comfy married-for-27years ass.
It’s almost as though some people didn’t even listen to him during his campaign. Do you suppose it was just “Hey, we got a black guy!” and then the rest was only noise? “He opposes what? Gay what? I can’t hear you, he’s black! Hurrah!”
I knew he was against gay marriage. He said that quite clearly. Still, he was was for civil unions and against Prop 8. I didn’t vote for him because he was black either. I voted for him because he’s intelligent and in every single other way far superior to the McCain/Palin ticket. Oh, and he was a Democrat of course.
I think he’s our country’s greatest hope to not go down the toilet. The country will see great things from him, and that includes advances in gay rights. I still believe in him overall, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be upset with this choice.
Why is the fact that some of us are highly upset with this one thing proof that we “only voted for him because he was black” (which makes no sense anyway) or that we’re not going to “give him a chance” (as if we could do anything else)?
Jesus, it’s gotten to the point where people smacking down and mocking those of us who are upset is almost worse than the Warren pick. At least it’s not as bad here as elsewhere.
This is horrific. I’m not saying Rick Warren or the Yes on 8 people caused this, the perps are totally responsible and of course straight women are assaulted every day, but when gays and lesbians are demonized, it can insinuate itself into people’s brains. Did these thugs target this woman because she was a lesbian? It’s very possible. Richmond police seek 4 in gang rape of lesbian
Who said your behavior was “proof” of anything? I realize that, as a Democrat, you’re not used to having an actual leader actually lead. But honestly, if you want to sit at the grownups’ table in politics, you’re going to have to blow off that 1960s hissy-fit manner of interacting with people. Show some fucking class.
Liberal, let me float an analogy for you. Suppose he’d picked a pastor who was known for preaching that the US Army’s campaign of genocide against Native Americans in the 18th, 19th and early 20th Centuries was justified, that the NA dominance over the New World was a historical mistake fostered by Satan and the steamrolling of the NA tribes in the United States was a crusade led by God. That the only Native Americans who could be acceptable Christians were those who completely denied their traditions and heritage and became, for all intents and purposes, white people culturally.
This is not just queers having a hissy-fit. This is the culmination of a really rotten couple of years for queer people building to a head of steam with the Warren pick. It’s like if GW Bush had invited Richard Dawkins to speak at his inauguration. You don’t think the evangelicals etc. would be having meltdowns?
Forgive me for being suspicious of all of these very, very recent “changes” in Warren’s attitude. It smells an awful lot like someone who’s realized that this could generate bad PR trying to scrub their reputation. If it’s spent the last 40 years being a rat, I’m not going to be convinced if it puts on a tail toupee and pretends to be a squirrel.