It’s not the way I “think” it is written, it is how it is actually written and actually enforced. Yes, if while you were conducting the Census at someone’s home and you glanced in their living room window and you saw child rape being committed and you went to the police YES, you would face that fine and jail time. This was made VERY clear to us in training - you report ONLY to your supervisor. No one else. Not even another supervisor in a neighboring district. Only YOUR supervisor or, if that person is unavailable, that person’s immediate supervisor. NO EXCEPTIONS EVER.
THAT is how seriously confidentiality is taken in the Census bureau and by the Federal government. If you can’t handle that don’t take the job.
House fires or assaults on our person we could definitely report to 911 directly, as that would not be Census information (anyone passing by can see a house on fire, and your person is not “Census information” and indeed an assault on you while conducting the Census is a Federal crime).
We were explicitly told NOT to report evidence of drugs or drug trafficking to law enforcement but to make a report of it (I’m sure you’ve seen the triplcate form, Ms. Robyn ) and let our supervisor know. Given our urban area it was inevitable we’d find such evidence, but of course I am not permitted to give any details whatsoever, or even to admit whether or not I personally ever saw such a thing.
That cite doesn’t seem to have the penalty clause in it, though - I used to have those pieces of paper they have for the field workers to hand out explaining it, but of course when my assignment ended I had to give everything back so I no longer have it.
He was referring to my earlier comment that UT’s fight song (“Rocky Top”) references violence against government agents.
Once two strangers climbed up Rocky Top
Lookin’ for a moonshine still
Strangers ain’t come down from Rocky Top
Reckon they never will
The local angle on the story has been whether the national media coverage has been unfair to us, with all the talk of drugs and references to the moonshiners of the past. My take is that it has been harsh, but not unfair. We can’t deny that a big chunk of our economy is built on the illegal drug trade, or that our relative isolation has allowed a lot of unfortunate attitudes to persist. The fact that a lot of us have managed to build good lives for ourselves here doesn’t negate that.
What state does not have illegal weed growing ? Does Kentucky grow more than California or Florida? The inherent distrust the Kentuckians have for the government is a factor here.
The area in question has been, at various times, one of the top producers of marijuana in the country, certainly on a per capita basis. It was a center of the hemp industry back when there was such a thing.
Like I said upthread, it isn’t nearly the big deal that it was 15 or 20 years ago, before the state police started their huge crackdowns and selling pills became much more lucrative (for a lot less physical labor). I have heard that it’s staged a significant comeback this year, due to the recession and a really favorable growing season (lots of rain).
You’re right that there’s an almost inherent distrust of the government at work here that probably led to Sparkman’s murder. It almost certainly also involved drugs, which could have been weed, meth, or even just pills. (Pills don’t require the physical space of the others, but there are certain areas known for selling them, and I wouldn’t want to be a stranger snooping around there.)
Of course, the drug angle makes it no less reprehensible. Most acts of political violence happen because people feel that their way of life is being threatened by outsiders. It doesn’t minimize it when the belief is more specific, or even when it’s somewhat based in reality.
I agree. If some real radicals decide to get violent, even a militia of geezers with AK’s, they could cause a lot of havoc before they went down. But I have become drastically less paranoid about the threat of some kind of violent right wing spasm. I oughta come clean about that in the fascism thread.
OTOH I think the corporate fascism push is a lot more dangerous, but that doesn’t have anything to do with this thread. Heck, this census murder doesn’t have any fascist feel for that matter, just whack-jobbery.
I think I have at least one copy somewhere, and if not, I can get one. I know the penalty clause is elsewhere in the law, however. I just don’t have the cite handy.
Still no information from management, but I asked some of my co-workers, and the consensus is that they’d report a violent crime or fire in progress. If nothing else, it can be reported anonymously. Even if the government would decide to prosecute, exigent circumstance would probably be a defense.
I don’t know about California, but in Florida pot “farms” generally consist of one guy growing stuff in a spare room, or maybe in a greenhouse, shed, or whatever.
Out in the Ozarks and places like that you’re not talking about one guy and a roomfull of pot, but 100 guys and acres of it.
Florida has acres of empty land, though I don’t know how much, if any, is planted with marijuana; Florida’s national parks used to be heavily planted, however. In California, Humboldt county alone has around 2000 acres of commercial marijuana cultivation, and Trinity and Mendocino counties have thousands more, mostly tended by workers for Mexican gangs that have taken up farming in California now that the border has gotten tighter.
I have an answer to the question of reporting emergencies. This still isn’t official, but I’ll explain why.
The decision of whether to contact 911 in the event of an emergency should be a judgment call based on common sense. It’s still a violation of Title 13 to do so, and the Census worker still risks prosecution if he does so while on government time. Of course, the Census worker can always report the emergency anonymously, which skirts the whole issue. I informally polled several of my co-workers, who all said they would report an emergency.
That said, there is a difference between reporting a true life-and-limb emergency and dropping the dime on a non-emergent crime. If all the Census worker sees is evidence of drugs, for example, there is no emergency and therefore calling the police is unjustifiable under Title 13, at least as far as the Census is concerned.
Because of the nature of judgment calls and the overarching desire not to legislate every circumstance imaginable, there is no cite and no official position. I know it’s unsatisfying, but there you are.
Thanks for the clarification. It does disprove Broomstick’s hysterical shrieking in post # 141 that a census worker who called 911 “would face that fine and jail time”. I didn’t think so.
And Carol Stream again proves what a useless piece of bandwidth she proved to be many times before.
Carol, I cannot call you names, but I can gently request that you shut the fuck up until some Girl Scout at your door has mercy and gives you a quarter to buy a fucking clue about life outside your little bubble. I’ve lived inside it, and it’s contracting so fast that it won’t be long until you are its sole resident.
The thing is, Broomstick isn’t wrong. The decision whether to prosecute a Census worker lies with (IIRC) the US attorney’s office. Just because there are exigent circumstances doesn’t mean the worker is automatically off the hook. The prosecutor may well decide to make an example of the worker, or use him as a test case to see what the law really means. There is also a culture of “don’t report anything because you can be prosecuted!11!!!111!!” which explains Broomstick’s reaction.
In any event, I clearly said that a census worker could still face prosecution, but that he has a defense if there truly is a life-and-limb emergency, and the prosecutor still has the discretion not to pursue a case. But the defense might not work, and federal prosecutors may still file charges. The Census worker also has to hire an attorney at his own expense and go through the embarrassment of an arrest and (possibly) a trial. And, at minimum, the worker is pretty much guaranteed to lose his job. So the unspoken message is “Use your own best judgment, but be aware that there can still be consequences.”
Just think how easy it would be for a group of “subversives” to go around doing random acts of terror, creating fear and distrust everywhere they operate!
Kill the odd census collector in places that are a hotbed of distrust and paranoia anyway, beat up individuals and give them reason to believe it is politically, racially or religiously motivated, the list could be endless.
In the absence of an arrest of any suspects, or more especially, any reliable conviction, this suspicion always runs through my mind. Our societies are teetering in such a way that it wouldn’t need large-scale acts of terrorism anymore, when small, barely noticeable acts could lead to us tearing ourselves apart!
) and let our supervisor know. Given our urban area it was inevitable we’d find such evidence, but of course I am not permitted to give any details whatsoever, or even to admit whether or not I personally ever saw such a thing.