RIP Scalia

[TonySinclair]

@crowmanyclouds

Are people who have been enslaved included in the group “reasonable human(s)” and are they included in the “recorded history of our race”?

Slavery is encoded in our Judeo-Christian values, given to us by that great Lawgiver who led his people out of slavery.

[Paranoid_Randroid]

@MrDibble

To his credit, lance didn’t use that weasel word

“Nearly anyone” is weasely? We should never say that nearly everyone would agree to something? Heck, I’d go so far as to say that anyone who wouldn’t add “just about” to uses of “anyone” like lance’s is being eye rollingly uncharitable.

There’s nothing “crazy” about pacifism…

At issue is whether it would be easy to imagine scenarios in which pacifism is crazy. It seems quite easy for me. If you disagree, I’m not sure what to tell you.

[MrDibble]

@Paranoid_Randroid

“Nearly anyone” is weasely?

It is if you add it to a statement after the fact.

Heck, I’d go so far as to say that anyone who wouldn’t add “just about” to uses of “anyone” like lance’s is being eye rollingly uncharitable.

Roll eyes all you want. This would not be my first time down this rabbit hole “What if your daughter was going to be raped to death…” “What about the Holocaust…” “What about if someone was going to kill every human being”…it’s clear some people do think everyone has limits.

At issue is whether it would be easy to imagine scenarios in which pacifism is crazy. It seems quite easy for me.

Well, depends what you mean by “crazy”…

[septimus]

From this article:

Scalia flunked every black student who took his classes that year. Nobody flunks courses in elite law schools. It’s unheard of. He flunked one brother so badly, it skewered his grade average, and he became the first, last, and only student in the history of the school to repeat first year. That man went on to become a repected [sic] military judge. Ultimately, no action was taken because the source of the information was private, confidential and privileged, and Scalia’s racist attitude and actions toward black students could be plausibly denied, but just barely…

However, what he thought of black people was indisputable, and believe me it was nothing nice. Being a swarthy, son of poor Sicilian immigrants, and intent on becoming an all-American white man, he was consumed with putting as much space between himself and Negroes as possible, and becoming an honorary member of the WASP elite.
…
What immediately struck me was that [the] answers were something that had never been covered in class, but it struck me that this was the kind of thing that he would talk to students about if students came by to visit him… “In those days, the only students who came by to visit him were in the Federalist Society group,” a conservative cadre that promoted Scalia’s originalist interpretation of the Constitution. “There was not a single black member of the Federalist Society in my three years at the U of C,”

[Bricker]

@septimus

From this article:

Of course, further investigation will reveal that, oops that was a mistake, not every black student failed. But still, the idea, that’s the important thing.

[Trinopus]

@Bricker

Of course, further investigation will reveal that, oops that was a mistake, not every black student failed. But still, the idea, that’s the important thing.

“Will reveal?” Do you mean that you hope someone will come forward and show the story was wrong, or do you actually have evidence that there was an error?

If you’ve got it, cite it. Otherwise, you’re being dishonest.

[Bricker]

@Trinopus

“Will reveal?” Do you mean that you hope someone will come forward and show the story was wrong, or do you actually have evidence that there was an error?

If you’ve got it, cite it. Otherwise, you’re being dishonest.

Sure:

He also admits that he’d been wrong about at least one classmate whom he’d remembered receiving an F, but who he now says passed the class. I spoke with one such former Scalia student, Ben Streeter, now an attorney with the Federal Election Commission, who told me that although he passed Scalia’s class, he noticed preferential treatment for a group of conservative students, who at that time were entirely white…

[septimus]

@Bricker

Sure:

One black passed. Scalia is vindicated! Charges were false!!!

How do you even look at yourself in the mirror **BrickDolt **?

[Bricker]

@septimus

One black passed. Scalia is vindicated! Charges were false!!!

How do you even look at yourself in the mirror **BrickDolt **?

Want to bet there were more?

[The_King_of_Soup]

@Bricker

Want to bet there were more?

I might bet there weren’t enough to pass a chi-squared test.

Bricker, you’re on awfully thin ice here. You’re either arguing that his experience with what he judged as almost-universally unfit black students as a law school professor at two different schools justifies his pronouncement decades later that black students are generally unfit for elite competitive higher education, or that he (uniquely, among his mostly-white colleagues) found black students at two different elite schools unfit, but that that had no bearing on his judgment, decades later, that black students are generally unfit for ECHE, or that the article is a crock and he passed black students at two different elite schools at reasonable rates compared to white students, in which case, at some point since then, he developed the notion that black university students are generally inferior. The only other limb I can see for your argument to crawl out on is even worse, but I’d be happy to be wrong.

[elucidator]

He said do you want to bet there are more. One more would be all he needed. He loves that sort of thing, really.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@The_King_of_Soup

…his pronouncement decades later that black students are generally unfit for elite competitive higher education…

I am no fan of Scalia, but this is hardly what he said.

[ElvisL1ves]

Pretty close, though.

JUSTICE SCALIA: There are — there are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to — to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less — a slower-track school where they do well. One of — one of the briefs pointed out that — that most of the — most of the black scientists in this country don’t come from schools like the University of Texas.

MR. GARRE: So this Court—

JUSTICE SCALIA: They come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they’re — that they’re being pushed ahead in — in classes that are too — too fast for them.

MR. GARRE: This Court—

JUSTICE SCALIA: I’m just not impressed by the fact that — that the University of Texas may have fewer. Maybe it ought to have fewer. And maybe some — you know, when you take more, the number of blacks, really competent blacks admitted to lesser schools, turns out to be less. And — and I — I don’t think it — it — it stands to reason that it’s a good thing for the University of Texas to admit as many blacks as possible. I just don’t think—

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

His point was that the students who are being admitted because of race-conscious enrollment policies are not benefited. He was not saying that UT should stop enrolling black students generally.

[ElvisL1ves]

That’s the way he worded it, though. You’re being awfully charitable.

[ElvisL1ves]

@septimus

One black passed. Scalia is vindicated! Charges were false!!!

Why, some of his best friends …

[YogSothoth]

@ElvisL1ves

Why, some of his best friends …

…also discriminated against black people?

[Saint_Cad]

@ElvisL1ves

That’s the way he worded it, though. You’re being awfully charitable.

But wasn’t that the case where the question was if diversity in of itself was properly a consideration for admitting black students over more qualified white students? If so then maybe Scalia’s point was: does admitting a black student under those circumstances necessarily benefit the student?

[The_King_of_Soup]

@Saint_Cad

But wasn’t that the case where the question was if diversity in of itself was properly a consideration for admitting black students over more qualified white students? If so then maybe Scalia’s point was: does admitting a black student under those circumstances necessarily benefit the student?

Would have thought this canard had been disposed of long before now. UT did not have a policy of admitting black students over more qualified white students. They encouraged admissions staff to use diversity as an object when deciding between equally qualified students. So Scalia’s theory, which he was careful to handle with gloves by attributing it to a ghostly “.. those who say…” was not only bigoted and factually wrong, (oh, and repugnant, mustn’t forget that) but also irrelevant to the question before the Court.

[elucidator]

@Saint_Cad

But wasn’t that the case where the question was if diversity in of itself was properly a consideration for admitting black students over more qualified white students? If so then maybe Scalia’s point was: does admitting a black student under those circumstances necessarily benefit the student?

The premise of “diversity” is that such variety of student population and experience of others is a positive good for all concerned. So, “necessarily” benefiting the student isn’t quite the point.