Nothing. Quite my point.
Sorry, I’m just not parsing the phrase “status of facts”. Perhaps we could go back to your first post on the matter to see if you were responding to me or to the website:
Nope, you were addressing the website. Now, do you or do you not want to back up your claim that their designation of “what is accurate, reliable, and credible” (i.e. adding up times of live broadcast) is unreliable? For someone who TiVO’ed the Reagan funeral and watched it at least 3 times, I think this would be right up your alley.
My apologies, this is off-topic to McCain’s speech, but it might provide a tiny bit of insight into some of the PBS coverage. I Tivo’d quite a bit of the coverage (I can record 4 different channels at a time) and deleted a lot of it, but kept lots of C-Span and bits from other channels, mainly PBS. I have 4 tapes full, and wrote down notes as I dubbed off. I deleted nearly all of the FOX and CNN crap, though I kind of which I’d kept it now.
I had no intention of keeping all this in the first place, but I’d never watched a political convention before, and wanted to keep it for a while for reference. I guess this counts.
These are my exact notes, I haven’t cut out any expletives.
==============================================
2004 Democratic Convention and coverage. Boston, MA
Tape 1
Monday July 26, 2004
(All convention speeches are recorded from C-Span unless otherwise noted)
MSNBC
- Michael Moore speaks to cut-out of Bush
- Cool shot of Boston bridge
Good Morning America
- Teresa Heinz Kerry (“Shove it”)
- Questions (such as Will the Clintons outshine the convention?)
- Clinton on Hillary
Speeches (taken from C-Span live and C-Span repeat)
- Al Gore (GREAT speech!)
- Rep Bill Richardson (D-New Mexico)
- Jimmy Carter (GREAT speech!)
- Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-Ohio)
- Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
- Rep. Bob Menendez (D-New Jersey)
- Glenn Close introduces Haleema Salie
- Haleema Salie (lost daughter and son-in-law on Flight 11)
- Gabe Lefkowitz (“Amazing Grace” on violin, nice)
- Rev. David Alston (served with John Kerry in Vietnam on Swiftboat, GREAT speech!)
- Hillary Clinton
- Bill Clinton (GREAT speech!)
From earlier in the day
- Glenn Close introduces a tribute to women in politics, women senators
After/other bits
CBS (started coverage at 9:00pm)
- Skipped Rev. David Alson to talk about Al Gore and other things, assholes.
- Dan Rather talks to Barack Obama (CBS won’t carry Obama’s speech Tuesday)
PBS commentary
- after Jimmy Carter. Some right-wing bullshit
- good stuff, historians talk about Carter’s speech
- Jimmy Carter in the studio, says great things, long interview
- more opinions on Carter’s speech
- Rev. David Alston’s speech
- comment on the speech
MSNBC after reactions (most of these cut in and are cut off)
- Jon Stewart - after Bill Clinton’s speech (“Teresa Heinz Kerry killed a hobo”)
- various from earlier, after Al Gore’s speech
- Keith Olberman stupidity on Teresa Heinz Kerry’s “Shove It” (Pat Buchanan)
- John Kerry impersonator
- Top 3 soundbites (Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, no Heinz Kerry, surprisingly)
- More about Al Gore’s speech
==============================================
Tuesday July 27, 2004
Good Morning America
- Overview
- Teresa Heinz Kerry (Dems “putrid”)
- THK interview (about Shove It - unsatisfying)
- Barack Obama feature (on GMA and local news) (ABC won’t cover Obama’s speech)
- Killer Whale bizarreness
- Lighter side of John Kerry (mock puffing on joint)
- Heinz and Kerry kids blended family
C-Span
- behind the scenes bits
- interview with female announcer voice, Randy Thomas
- bit of background and weird phone calls
- Puff the Magic Dragon being rehearsed (Kerry’s “puff” mentioned)
- who are the delegates?
- about Ron Reagan Jr.
Convention
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D- Mass)
- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D-Missouri)
- Jeanne Shaheen (Former Gov. D-NH)
- Sen. Tom Daschle (D-South Dakota)
- Carol Moseley Braun
end tape, go to tape 2
==============================================
==============================================
re-convention feature on THK
Wednesday July 28, 2004
Chicago Tonight (pre-convention)
- Barack Obabma reactions
Convention
- Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Washington) (mentions nasty Enron jokers about “making Grandma Millie pay more”)
- Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Arizona) (blasts Bush by name)
- Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-New York) (lost her husband to the Long Island massacre)
- Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Missouri)
- Rep. Charles Rangel (D-New York) (Revolution, excellent!)
- Sen. Charles Schumer (D-New York) (tribute to Daniel Patrick Moynahan)
- Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) (change channels VP, respect of other nations)
- Amy Klobuchar (County Atty, Hennepin County, MN) (“Humanity of Paul Wellstone”)
- Raul Yzaguirre (Pesident of La Raza) (great message for Hispanics)
- Sen. John Glenn (D-Ohio)
- Robert Kennedy Jr. (fantastic speech! Environment barnburner!!)
- Wycliff Jean sings - “If I Were President”
- Rev. Jesse Jackson (“In the dark…” good speech)
- Martin O’Malley (Mayor of Baltimore) (biting speech about not having funds for first-responders)
- Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio)
- Steve Brozak (D-New Jersey, candidate for House) (Former Republican!! Changed after being in Iraq)
- Rev. Al Sharpton (GREAT SPEECH! One of the few who mentions Sudan, DC vote)
- Sen. Bob Graham (D-Florida) (National security, “Osama bin Forgotten”)
- “Shout” dancing
- Gov. Ed Rendell (D-Pennsylvania) (signs say “Thank you” why??) (Energy independence, good plans)
- John Mellencamp - “Small Town”
- Gov. Bill Richardson (D-New Mexico) (actual speech, very good) (not shown on PBS, nothing before it shown)
- Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D-Michigan) (revolution, economics) (shown on PBS)
end of tape, con’t on tape 3
==============================================
2004 Democratic Convention. Boston, MA
Tape 3
Wednesday July 28, 2004 con’t
- Pro-Kerry video with top military people (not shown on PBS)
- Lt. Gen. Claudia Kennedy (Ret.) Former Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence (not shown on PBS)
- Gen. John Shalikashvili (Ret.) (Former Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, Clinton Administration) (excellent speech)
(next speeches from PBS because I didn’t get C-Span coverage)
-
talking heads “blah blah blah” (something going on onstage, talking, cheers, clapping, but PBS not showing it)
-
Cate Edwards
-
Elizabeth Edwards
-
John Edwards
-
more PBS talking heads “blah blah blah”
Stuff from earlier in the evening, and later
Chicago Tonight (PBS)
- Barack Obama reactions
Misc. PBS Coverage (earlier, while others are talking)
- short interview with Al Sharpton (even though PBS didn’t show his speech)
- Howard Dean interview (while Mellencamp is singing, and Bill Richardson is talking)
- interesting audio information about Jennifer Granholm (born in Canada, became US citizen at 21, more)
- tip of hat to George McGovern, Walter Mondale, Michael Ducakus (sp)(I didn’t record it earlier)
- comments about them and their wives
Bit from the Nominating section, Roll Call
- Alabama yields to Massachusetts, Alaska yields to North Carolina
- Arkansas (Wesley Clark), Democrats Abroad (!), Disctrict of Columbia (can’t vote in elections)
- Florida (“we’ll count every one of them”), Georgia, Illinois, Iowa (“first in the nation”)
- Kansas (“home of Jim Brown…Amelia Earhart…Dennis Hopper”), Minnesota (Walter Mondale) yields to Ohio
- Ohio (John Glenn), Missouri, Vermont, Alabama, Alaska, Minnesota
C-Span interviewing James Roosevelt, grandson of FDR (talks about Barack, Al Sharpton, more)
==============================
Thursday, July 29, 2004
bits from MSNBC
- interview with Richard Schiff (The West Wing)
- interview with Al Franken
- bits from older conventions, acceptance speeches
- interview with Richard Trumka (Secretary-Treasurer, AFL-CIO)
- Tweety (Chris Matthews) reads some of Kerry’s speech (hours before Kerry gives his speech!)
- interview with Barney Frank
- interview with delegate
- talk about Al Sharpton, with Tom Brocaw
- Tweety reads more from Kerry’s speech
- Republican fuck (Ed Gillespie) Tweety chides the pubs about not showing their true face, pretty funny
- interview with a 19 year old delegate
Convention (didn’t get earlier speeches)
- C-Span callers, some pro, some anti
- 7:00 pm Women of the U.S. House of Representatives
- Rep. Louise Slaughter (New York)
- film about not being able to vote in Washington, D.C.
- Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (District of Columbia)
- The Honorable Mark Warner (Governor of Virginia)
- Rep. James Clyburn (South Carolina)
- Rep. Juanita Millender-McDonald (California )
- Rep. Edward Markey (Massachusetts)
- John Sweeney 0 President, AFL-CIO
Gavel to Order
The Honorable Bill Richardson
Governor of New Mexico
Permanent Chair, Democratic National Convention
- America the Beautiful sung by Mavis Staples
- Sen. Joseph Biden (Delaware)
- General Wesley Clark (Ret.)
- Satellite feed from Orlando, Florida
- Sen. Joseph Lieberman (Connecticut)
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (California) House Democratic Leader
- Satellite feed from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
- Performance by Willie Nelson
- The Honorable Madeleine Albright (Former Secretary of State)
- Satellite feed from Albuquerque, New Mexico
- “Mosaic of Americans”
- Alfre Woodward (Actress)
- Includes satellite feeds from:
- Albuquerque, New Mexico
- Columbus, Ohio
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
- Orlando, Florida
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Portland, Oregon
- Performance by Carole King
- Andre Heinz
- Vanessa Kerry
- Alexandra Kerry
- John Kerry Biographical Film
John Kerry’s Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmates
Jim Rassmann of Florence, Oregon will speak
The Reverend David Alston, Columbia, South Carolina
Skip Barker, Selma, Alabama
Steve Hatch, Niagra Falls, New York
Jim McDevitt, Wrenthem, Massachusetts
Mike Medeiros, San Leandros, California
Pat Runyon, Eaton, Ohio
Wade Sanders, San Diego, California
Del Sandusky, Dunedin, Florida
Fred Short, North Little Rock, Arkansas
Gene Thorson, Ames, Iowa
Jim Wasser, St. Anne, Illinois
Drew Whitlow, Huntsville, Arkansas
Bill Zaladonis, Sanford, Florida
end of tape, go to tape 4
==============================================
2004 Democratic Convention. Boston, MA
Tape 4
Thursday, July 29, 2004
- Andre Heinz
- Vanessa Kerry
- Alexandra Kerry
- John Kerry Biographical Film
- John Kerry’s Vietnam Swiftboat Crewmates
- Jim Rassmann of Florence, Oregon will speak
- The Honorable Max Cleland (Former United States Senator, Georgia)
- John Kerry
- Finale
C-Span after-speech coverage
MSNBC after-speech coverage (“it was rushed” sheesh)
FOX after-speech coverage
========
Misc. (dates all out of order, dubbed off Tivo at random)
Saturday, July 31, 2004
On The Story (CNN)
- commentary about Barack Obama, Al Sharpton, others, and mini-feature on Ilana Wexler
=======
From earlier in the week
The O’Lielly Factor (Tuesday, July 27, 2001)
- Bullshit about criticism concerning Fox not showing speeches, asshole says print media should “Shove it”
- Ben Affleck (during Ted Kennedy’s speech)
- Jerry Brown
- Kweisi Mfume (NAACP president)
- Michael Moore
- bitching about Howard Dean (“a genuinely bad guy”)
- bit about Ralph Nader
=======
Back to Thursday night
- 1 hour of CNN coverage (talking over Joe Biden, Wesley Clark, Nancy Pelosi, Albright speeches!!)
=======
Morning-after convention stuff (July 30, 2004)
(all show the red meat part of Kerry’s speech - "I will appoint an Attorney General who will uphold the Constitution of the United States)
CBS Early Show (Hannah Storm talks to Craig Crawford, disgusting bullshit “analysis”)
Today (Katie Couric talks to Tim Russert, Gov. Richardson, Kerry & Edwards)
I DVR’ed it. But you stopped prematurely. It was your following comment that brought my comment that followed your following one. That exchange went like this:
You: Sure, question away. I’ll go ahead and assume you’ll be posting later with some contrary evidence that shows their facts to not be in order?
Me: But you’ve already given them the status of “facts”.
Just match up the colors.
I then proceded to explain how problematic the presumption of fact is to offering the contrary evidence you ask for — like a scientist who has made up his mind before he conducts his experiment. That was an analogy. See, you are the scientist. And the experiment would provide the evidence, but since your mind is made up — their facts — it stands to reason that no evidence would convince you.
Lib: I think it’s reasonable to assume that **Munch ** is using “the facts” to mean “the data”.
It is still beyond me why he answered that question like he did. It would have been pretty effective to just say “…but the real question is would BUSH have done the same thing?”
Not really. Bush has already come out and said that he would have. While I feel certain that Kerry really would not have voted for the war resolution if were held today, I hate to think that I have to play mind games to figure out what a candidates position “really” is.
Regarding the Giuliani’s “Thank God Bush is President” story – I thought it was a bit absurd when I heard it. But I heard Larry King interviewing Giuliani, getting the details, and Rudy says he had just gotten off the phone with Bush after asking for (and getting) air support and a bunch of other things. In that context, the comment is more believable – but of course, it also makes it less worshipful of Bush than Giuliani made it sound in his speech.
He also said that both he and the police commissioner had repeated the story many times, and that it had been reported a dozen or so times in various media outlets. Dunno if that’s true or not, but it seems like an easy thing to check.
Any thoughts on tonights speeches? I only caught Arnolds and Laura’s speech on CBS.
How do people feel the Republicans are doing so far? Their strategy seems to be confrontational with the Democrats and Kerry, which is certainly a different tact than the Democrats took at the DNC. They are really taking it to Kerry. Is this a wise strategy or will it backfire? Are they reaching their target audience or are they missing the mark?
-XT
Too bad no one called Arnold on his lie. Arnold talked about hearing Humphrey speak…and then he heard the words of Nixon in the fight against Communism.
The Republican convention was FIRST as the Republicans were out of power in 1968. The Republican convention was Aug 5-8 and the Dems were late August 1968.
Little did Guiliani know that Dubya was right in the middle of his “My Pet Goat” freezeup at the time. What a crock!
Seems pretty minor a point. Nitpick?
Anyway, what did you THINK of his speech? I thought it was a strong speech but kind of content free. I liked Laura’s speech too but again it lacked substance and was an appeal to emotion.
Still, I think the Republicans are doing a decent job of taking it to the Democrats…not too heavy handed, but with a definite bite too it. Perhaps the Democrats miscalculated and should have done something similar at their convention? I don’t know if this is such a wise strategy, but its obvious that it IS their strategy and I think they are doing a decent job of following it.
-XT
My post was in response to dalej42 btw. I won’t even comment about the stupid goat comment.
-XT
XT, I know I’m not objective but so far I just haven’t seen anyone really making any case to vote for Bush. There seems to be basically a three pronged theme: Attack Kerry. Exploit 9/11. Hammer the terrorism drum. I haven’t heard anything at all about actual policy, about the economy (other than “have faith”), about heath care, about the environment, about job creation, about the problems in Iraq (they seem to be pretending that the Iraq mission is all over now and wrapped up in a bow) or even about the War on Terror except in the most vague platitudes and cliches.
They really seem to be making a concerted effort to completely avoid discussing Bush’s record in office on anything except the largely fabricated meme about Bush’s “leadership” after 9/11.
I don’t expect conventions to have much substance but this one seems to have even less than usual.
The mere presence of these people are symbolic.
-
McCain - He was quoted in commercials on behalf of Kerry last week. Now he is seen publicly endorsing Bush.
-
Mayor Giuliani’s endorsement with the backdrop of 9/11 behind him.
-
A liberal Republican Governor who was just voted into the largest Democrat state and has a 70 percent approval rating.
-
A Democratic Senator endorsing Bush.
Nobody is capable of pulling voters from their respective corners but the people listed above are viewed as Middle American.
I wonder if anyone will check up with Arnold’s VA story. Whenever I hear a politician say they spoke with a generic person (In this case a wounded vet, no name given) I always hope the news asks where and when and importantly who.
If he never visited a VA hospital or met this fellow then he should be slapped silly.
I’d love to hear this unnamed wounded fellow say he really wants to go back and fight. Could be true but I’m dubious better to hear it from the horses mouth.
Also when did the recesssion end in the United States, and how the hell was it inherited? Last I heard The Clinton administration had a surplus and the economy was strong.
So your answer is no, then? And yes, John Mace is correct - I’m referring to their data. And given my statements in this thread bemoaning the fact that their data is lacking in several other aspects, I find your suggestion that I’m not open to a contrary conclusion to be quite presumptuous.
I expect Bush to talk about policy. It makes sense for him to let the other guys attack Kerry.
Any less than the DNC?
I thought Arnold’s speech was fantastic (as he’d say). His enthusiam was infectuous, and his “If you think… then you’re a Republican” is going to resonate with a lot of voters. Even if that part was more marketing than reality, that’s what the conventions are about-- packaging the president and the party. Excellent speech-- I give it an A+.
Laura was a bit stiff. Her speech was OK, but she seemed distant and somewhat cold. Not sure she connected with folks all that well. And I couldn’t help but notice that a supposedly former teacher said “horrific horrors”.
The twins were kind of lame, but probably no worse than any of us would’ve been at 21 years of age. When they talked about Bush reading them bedtime stories, did anyone else think “My Pet Goat”? 
Not endorsing Kerry, though. He’s a solid Republican and anyone is fooling himself if he thinks otherwise.
Bush’s strong point with voters.
Arnold is no liberal. He is a self described conservative and a lifelong (at least since he’s been in the US) Republcan.
It’s amazing Zell hasn’t been kicked out of the Democratic party. Could that happen if the leadership wanted it?
It’s obvious to me what Arnold’s role in this convention is: to suck in the immigrant vote. America is great, America is good, anybody can be what they want to be in America, if Arnold can become a superstar millionaire governor betrothed to a Kennedy so can I, the Republican party welcomes you, freedom, democracy, rah rah rah! Very patriotic. It was okay the first five minutes, but it got tiresome quickly after that. He didn’t come across so much as a leader who has acquired respectable political stature as much as he did The Eternally Grateful Immigrant, who can make all our problems look like candied yams compared to the plight of people in other countries. The Republicans need to do this, you see, so that the American people can put things in their proper perspective. We might not be perfect, but at least we don’t have Soviets pulling us out of cars and selling our children into slavery!
His “economic girlie men” and the cheers this generated annoyed me. What does this mean, anyway? The machismo buried in that comment was a turn off.
He didn’t do a bad job, though. The audience seemed to like him better than they did McCain.