And that helps how, exactly? Envying my father for his life will do precisely nothing to solve the pain in anyone else’s, and regardless, the fact is you know nothing that puts you in a position of being able to judge how my father ranks this in terms of his tragedies, or how he should feel about any of them. My point was, and remains, that to commit suicide in a way that directly involves someone else doesn’t end pain so much as it moves it to someone else.
What if instead of killing herself, your sister decided to move to Alaska and become a complete hermit, never talking to her family again. Would you feel the same rage?
If I was reasonably sure her existence as a hermit brought her as much happiness in life as was possible for her to have, no. I’d miss her, but I wouldn’t be pissed off because I wanted what was best for her.
I don’t think death was in her best interests. It certainly wasn’t in anyone else’s best interest for her to kill herself.
I guess it depends on the Utilitarian calculus. Does the future pain avoided by one individual exceed the pain caused to others by the act?
I don’t know what the bolded statement means.
Not everyone gets better with psychiatric help. Most do, and that’s why millions of people DON’T throw themselves in front of a train. I’m thinkin’ I won’t be holding suicidal people to the Miss Manners Book of Suicide Etiquette, though. That would be mean.
It is terrible. I hope he does not do it again. Can you imagine if he did it every day?
What if I witness someone harming a morally pure little child? What if I’m judging…say…Hitler? Doesn’t this absolute denial of my right require extensive qualification? What if I said “No one has any right to assert others have no right to do something?” I dunno, sweeping statements like that seem kinda…schoolyard.
On an un-Pitworthy tangent, I also question the assertion that all suicides are at the end of their rope after a lifetime of unimaginable pain. I’ve known enough people with poor impulse control to suppose that some forms of suicide, especially jumping-in-front-of-a-train kinds (as opposed to say, not eating for weeks), might be impulsive and poorly-thought-out. “Ah, what the hell… jump”
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve seen enough people offfhandedly do something that hurt themselves, physically or emotionally, and then regret it later, to think that someone might in a moment of weakness step in front of a train without it necessarily being the end product of a lifetime of unendurable agony. Maybe it’s just a bad, impulsive, snap decision, at least sometimes.
I think the OP’s original sentiment has been lost in this thread. He was pitting the guy for the psychological trauma and irreparable damage, as well as the years of legal bullshit he caused the Metro driver.
Sadly, in his case all he was guilty of was showing up for work on time!
They’re fucking assholes. My sympathy ends the moment they decide to bring bystanders into their nightmare. I’ve dealt with my own suicidal feelings and wanted to feel better, not give everyone else “just a taste” of my own misery. You can be in psychic pain and still be a narcissistic prick.
Sure it’s sad. So’s homelessness, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to rhapsodize over someone taking a shit on a bus-stop bench.
I don’t think utilitarianism is a good way to make that determination, even if it were possible to truly compare one person’s pain to another. Under utilitarianism, if 10 people would feel happier if you executed another person, then too bad for that 1 person. I think that’s a shitty approach to human rights.
I knew a Caltrain Engineer who had a dude suicide by stepping in front of his train. Poor guy was never the same after, he couldn’t do his job anymore, nitemares, depression, his life bascily ruined.
Isn’t that precisely what’s being pitted?
Indeed, this guy survived for more than an hour.
The subway driver may be in the same situation.
No, the OP (and others) are whining about how they were slightly inconvenienced by this depressed man’s desperate act. So what if you were two hours late for a meeting? He’ll be late for the rest of his life. As for the train conductor – well, all I gotta say is, until our society authorizes “Euthanasia On Demand” centers open for anyone who feels life is too painful (and not just the terminally ill, either!) every train conductor should accept events like this as a potential occupational hazard.
Should’ve gone for decapitation, or a direct impact to the skull. Maybe he did, but I can see how he might have panicked and tried to leap out of the way at the last second – survival instinct’s a bitch.
Well, as it’s standard policy* for someone in the engine to get down off the engine and verify that the gore under the cowcatcher is a human corpse, I would say they have already accepted it as an occupational hazard, which, unless it’s obvious, doesn’t mean it’s something to be desired or easily accepted. But you speak as if there is a comparison to be made between a suicidal person’s pain and what happens to the people forced to partake in that suicide, and I have not sought to rank the two. My father was interrupted at work, asked to piss in a cup, and compelled to participate in depositions many months later when the dead man’s family sued. On the one hand, that is mere piffle compared to the fact that someone is dead now; on the other, it’s certainly not a nice thing to do to someone. I would say it’s less dick than the family friend who shot himself on his back porch knowing he’d be discovered first by his twelve year old, but it’s still pretty dick.
*Or at least it was at the time this occurred, late 90s. Can’t speak for now.
You miss the point. There are countless ways to commit suicide without inflicting random pain on random people. You rationalizing the conductor’s lot in life (they should accept this?) is amazingly short sighted, selfish and quite frankly dangerous. This is like defending the guy who poisons bottles of aspirin. Yes, there are reasons for the behavior, and it’s worth examining them, but random harm is still being inflicted. Trying to empathize with the jumper is ok, but rationalizing & excusing his behavior and it’s consequences is not. This guy was disturbed, and clearly lived a life filled with pain and couldn’t take it anymore. I feel for that kind of suffering. He was also an asshole, who profoundly affected other human beings (the conductors)in a negative manner.
That being said, I’ve had to pick my wife up after she was on a train stopped by a jumper 3 times in 3 years. One of those instances left her stranded in a sketchy at night area with no bus service offered. Forgive me for not caring about the victim’s mental situation if my wife is assaulted after being stranded in a dangerous place because of his chosen mode of ending the pain.
Really! Someone should have mentioned that to Jerry’s Kids and they could have the lot of us from the misery of telethons.
Truthfully, and I say this despite the fact that I generally enjoy reading your posts: if I were you, I wouldn’t be so eager to shout from the rooftops that I couldn’t care less about human suffering. In any form.
I’ll say.
Not so many as you’d think. Modern drugs don’t work so well (the only effective drugs, i.e. barbituates, are highly regulated and nearly impossible to get a prescription for), not everyone has access to guns, and smog emission laws have rendered the age-old “running car in the garage” method nearly obsolete. Not everyone lives nearby a bridge or tall building with easy roof access, so what else does that leave?
Bullshit. The Tylenol-poisoning guy is trying cause random pain and suffering for his own delight. The suicider is trying to end is own pain, and if ending their great pain causes minor pain (from their perspective) to others, so be it.
Now you’re acting like a hypocrite. If you don’t care about their situation…why should they care about yours? Keep in mind, there are likely several lurkers who are considering what I used to consider (which is why I’m always mindful to point out the consequences) and you’re not scoring many points with them.
You’d envy people who can’t sleep because they keep having nightmares about the suicide? :dubious:
Thank you. If I ever feel the urge to do so, I will reconsider.