If she’d started the video by saying something like, “Since men can’t go more than 5 minutes without raping someone,” you’d let it slide because you yourself aren’t a rapist?
FWIW, my jets are perfectly cool; my agreement with the OP is strictly intellectual, not emotional. I share his logical assessment but not his vitriol. But that might be because I have no idea who this person is and I don’t follow the Atheist+ movement or whatever she represents.
Rebecca Watson is a prominent face of segment of the internet and she has some well-publicized interactions with other members of the atheist community. She expects that most of the people who watch that video will have some idea of the surrounding context and within that context, her opening remark is a perfectly acceptable ‘edgy’ joke. There’s a difference between that and just tossing out incorrect generalizations.
I don’t like her. She has a history of rather hysterical statements, advocating that women at skeptical conferences should walk in pairs in case they get harassed, for example. PZ Myers is just as bad, incidentally. Atheism+ as a whole, in fact, have a bizarre adherence to censorship, abuse, harassment and generally unpleasant speech and behaviour.
Exactly.
There are well-publicized things involving the atheist community? It is to laugh. The only way atheists get publicity is by pissing off non-atheists (see, e.g., PZ Myers communion wafer incident.)
I’m a male atheist who had never heard of this person, watched the video in the OP and doesn’t see what the fuss is about.
BPC is pretty strident for a guy that dates underage retarded girls.
I’m not saying it’s farmer in Arkansas publicized, but within the market she expects to see that video, it’s not unreasonable of her to expect a general level of familiarity with it.
… well that escalated quickly.
If it’s true that she gets harassed a lot, then this is a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
I haven’t seen this. From my point of view, they’ve certainly been aggressive in their advocacy, but I haven’t seen anything that struck me as very inappropriate.
Fair enough, I’ll ask a mod to move it to the inside of the thread.
The group she’s irritated about she defined as literally all male atheists.
Yeah, and if someone made a similarly sexist generalization about women and passed it off as a joke, Watson probably would take it as quite an offense.
It’s just not funny, and even with the context of being a part of this movement, it’s offensive and baseless. Like, maybe if she had said something like “Thunderf00t fans”. Even that’s just kinda dumb. But no, it had to be every single member of her movement which possesses a Y chromosome. It’s like starting a fundraiser aimed at an audience which is about 50% elderly jews with a holocaust joke. Not edgy, not funny, just dumb, offensive, and liable to turn about half the audience off right away.
Complete and utter horseshit. We were both underage and well within the law, he was not mentally challenged (unless you count transsexuality, which his mother did, hence my confusion), Ducca should really stop posting that shit in every thread.
I’m sorry, since when is “Don’t Feed The Trolls” the same thing as blaming the victim? Here, from that post, emphasis mine:
God, it’s like people can’t tell the difference between “here’s some well-meaning advice on how you can change your behavior to avoid these undesirable results which are still the fault of other people” and “this is your fault because you did X”. If you’re being harassed by trolls, then it’s their fault. But that doesn’t mean that you have absolutely no responsibility to understand how that works, and it doesn’t mean that having your own little pity party won’t make people justified in saying “Yeah, no, this is exactly the wrong reaction, if you want this to stop you should change X”. I’m reminded of Thunderf00t’s excellent video on rape avoidance, which took literally every opportunity possible to hammer in the message that he wasn’t blaming the victim, and still had to make this followup, explaining that same point in even more exhaustive detail, because various feminists didn’t get it. Including Watson. Ugh.
That said, this is pretty much irrelevant, and that was a drunken rant I made after two fairly large dark’n’stormies which you still needed to misrepresent in order to try to poison the well against me. I’m no “Men’s Rights Activist”. I support equality. I just have a bone to pick with Rebecca Watson. Not because she’s a woman, not because she’s a feminist, but because she’s a sexist figurehead with a penchant for saying very dumb things and playing the victim card far more often than she ought to. I wouldn’t care if she was just some random person. But she’s becoming a big deal in the movement; the kind of person you can expect to see up on the main stage at major atheist conferences. And we don’t need this kind of crap. Especially not when the main thing that comes to mind when a lot of people think of feminism is, well, this woman. And shit like this video in the OP? Joke or not, it’s tasteless and insulting and if you’re going to be the figurehead of the feminism in the atheist community, you should damn well know better.
Well, if it’s a choice between your side and her side, I guess I’ll have to pick hers purely on the basis that she can’t possibly be any more pissy.
You’re the one that keeps barfing his personal life out all over the board. Don’t whine when people actually pay attention.
Like the one where you were bragging about dating a 48 year old.
Or the one where you talk about your mentally stunted underage girlfriend.
Or where you complain about another girlfriend’s brother(this one was my favorite, I think).
Oh, there was an update to the Brother thread that I think I missed. I have some good reading ahead of me.
I think you’re way off if you take Thunderf00t’s side vs Watson- he has serially dismissed the reasonable and likely true complaints of real women (including incidents of sexual assault!), done nothing to curb the vile and threatening comments in his own posts, and just in general been an all-around buffoon in his crusade against feminism.
With regards to his “rape avoidance” video, the problem is not that he “blames the victim”, the problem is that he doesn’t expend more than a token effort to blame the rapist! Any instance of rape is not 50/50 bad behavior on the rapist and poor caution by the victim- it’s always 100% the fault of the rapist, period. It’s not even 99/1 bad raping men vs women who dress wrong or walk alone at night- it’s 100% the rapist’s fault. Women don’t need to change their behavior to avoid rape- rapists do. And any sort of “common sense” suggestions, like don’t walk alone in a dangerous area at night, or something, are pointless- women already know this stuff. If TF wants to fight rape, he should make efforts to change the behavior of the rapists (and potential rapists)- not the victims and potential victims. Not only is it ineffective, but it’s incredibly rude and obnoxious to actual victims of rape- essentially saying “see, you could have avoided this if you just did x, y, and z”. Saying “but I’m not blaming the victim!” is not good enough when he spends the rest of the video saying “you can avoid rape if you do this, this, and this”. Rape is a different sort of crime, and it should be treated differently.
I don’t have any particular love for Budget Player Cadet, and even when he’s echoing her own ironic epithet back at her, I really dislike anyone calling a woman a cunt. BUT, I have to admit that these days when I think of Watson, the words “professional victim” spring to mind. And I was on her side during elevatorgate, and I’m cool with Atheism+ and promoting social diversity within the movement.
But there comes a point, even when people are saying legitimately vile things, and even when there are reasonable grievances about sexism, that advocates turn me off by seeking out the worst offenders and fanning the flames. There will always be assholes, trolls, and genuinely criminal, sociopathic creeps. Focusing on them and their behavior only obscures the real (but less dramatic and click-producing) issues that prevail broadly across the movement. I’ve kind of been on the fence about Watson, but when she recently broke the vendor rules at Dragon*Con, got yelled at, and decided to leave, then characterized it as being “booted,” I kind of threw up my hands. She’s clearly looking for ways to be offended, whether it has to do with feminism or not.
I guess I’m bothering to post because for me she represents that most irritating type: someone ostensibly on your side, whom you *want *to like, but who does obnoxious shit that makes it difficult.
Ditto.
Yay.
The 18 year old white dude solved sexism.
I suppose it was supposed to be funny. While I can’t quite get up to the OP’s Righteous Indignation, I’ll admit that it’s a cunty sort of thing to say, and not even salvaged by being funny. Meh. It will make me consider looking for another big skeptical/sciencey podcast since the SGU crew are getting on my last nerve.
Your broadside still came out rather out of the blue, mate.
Eh, when you decide to call a woman a cunt all bets are off.