You might want to sit down while I tell you some bad news about what’s been going on in the Catholic Church.
please don’t tarnish williams legacy :smack:
Yeah, men slapped each other on the ass pretty commonly.
Yeah, leave our treasured memories of him as a coked-up whirlwind intact!
This kind of feels right, except it’s very general and not strictly true in my experience. People are still people, and there are still plenty who can see the funny in mocking malice. As long as you know your audience, you’re gonna bond. What’s changed is we’re more likely to respect when someone pipes up with, “But I DON’T think that’s funny and I’d appreciate not being included in those sorts of jokes.”
As for Dawber, it’s possible Williams pegged her as someone with a thick NY hide who could take the full force of his mania. She certainly played well across from him on screen.
I’d be interested to know what advice Jonathan Winters (Williams’ hero/mentor, and also bipolar) gave to young Robin. About everything. Because for someone afflicted with a condition characterized by poor impulse control, remarkably little filth is to be found on Williams.
And, Here’s this. Have fun!
[Moderating]
Attack the argument, not the poster. The former is allowed. The latter is personal insults, and is not allowed. This is a formal Warning.
[Not moderating]
Why is this even a story? Someone did sexual things with someone else, and both consented. That’s been going on for all of history. Your grandparents did it, too. So what?
Because “OMG Sexual Harassment!” is a hot topic that gets clicks, even if the supposed victim states that she wasn’t harassed.
The key word that nobody has used in this thread is “unwelcome”. It really doesn’t matter if we are talking 2018, 1977, or 1492. The same exact behavior can be considered bad or not-bad, all depending on if it is “unwelcome”. It appears that Ms. Dawber did not state that Mr. William’s behavior was unwelcome, so then this is a non-story.
It is unfortunate that biased outsiders categorize events to fit their narrative.
That’s why I said “if”.
See post #15
I think the sensible conclusion, both now and in the 1970s or whatever decade, is that you can’t do something to another person if they don’t like it, and that if you don’t know for sure whether they like it or not, then you have to ask them.
With the added caution that from now on you sure as hell better not guess wrong about whether they’re going to like it.
Duly noted, and thank you!
It is possible to joke around about sex now too.
The power dynamic is changing, and the malicious intent in older humor is more obvious.
Different time. Different world. I don’t miss those days at all.
:rolleyes: It’s still possible to joke around about sex, and to touch people in a joking way, as long as all the people involved are okay with it.
What’s becoming less possible these days is for nasty jerks, creeps and bullies to get away with touching other people who are not okay with it, and excusing it on the grounds that they were “just joking”.
Really? If she had in fact been okay with having her vagina (which is not actually a dirty or forbidden word) touched, and thought it was just in fun, then why would it have been “crossing the line”?
See, part of the change that’s happening now is that criteria of acceptable behavior are shifting away from some kind of arbitrary “line-crossing” rulebook that was normalized by a bunch of lecherous creeps back in the day when women had little recourse against harassment, and toward more universal principles of autonomy and consent.
Nowadays we can skip all this prurient invasive nitpicking about exactly which part of somebody’s anatomy somebody else touched and whether that was officially “crossing the line” or not according to the arbitrary rulebook. What we judge on instead is simply whether the party being touched was consenting to being touched in that way.
This is the point.
A few folks have noted that “times have changed” and they have, but that’s not really the problem here. The problem is that consenting pretty much the key element that matters and makes the OP a bald faced lie.
Asking out a coworker is okay if he/she says yes. Asking out a coworker and they say no is harassment.
Getting a ‘no’ doesn’t make it harassment, either. Persisting in asking after getting a ‘no’ is what makes it harassment.
I’ve said this before, but will repeat myself.
At EVERY job I’ve ever held, there’s been a guy who talks trash, drops sexual innuendo, and mock-molests women. In EVERY case, the women seemed to love it. They all laughed hysterically, and none ever complained.
If I had ever attempted anything similar, every one of those women would have kicked me in the shin, complained to the boss, and gotten me fired.
Is there a lesson? Well, SOME guys can do that kind of thing and come off as charming or funny. MOST of us would just seem creepy if we did it.
Apparently, Robin Williams was the kind of guy who could show his schlong to a nun and make her laugh., rather than offend her. Very few of us can do that.
No, you don’t have to guess. As you pointed out, you can ask people if they don’t like something.
There it is; that’s the big secret. Ask people. And if they say no, don’t do it.
And there’s these guys who never have to work. But they always have money.
They just go out on the street or into a business and point a gun at somebody. And then those people just hand them money.
How is that fair? I have to go to work every day for hours and hours to get some money. And these guys just have people giving them money.