+1
Fenris has a poor arguement :dubious:
and as many have said, if she was OK with went on (Dawber) it isn’t harassment.
You think I was complaining? You think I WANT to expose myself to co-workers? Guess again!
Most of us have no desire to talk trash, reveal our privates, or proposition female colleagues. I sure don’t. But even if I WERE ever tempted to do so, I know dang well it wouldn’t come across as charming or playful. It would come across as creepy, and I KNOW it.
There are guys who can talk dirty and get away with it, but most of us can’t. The guys who can’t should KNOW they can’t, or they’ll get in big trouble.
If the average guy talks dirty, female colleagues think “What a jerk.” A select few guys can unzip their flies, and everyone will say, “Oh, that’s just Bob.”
That’s a nice thought, but we’re in a time where there is no due process on this stuff. Accusation = guilt. If the woman felt uncomfortable, you’re dead meat.
Thank god for being married.
Even in our heightened #metoo climate that’s not even remotely true.
No. It’s not that close. It is not close at all.
Robin Williams was an admitted coke addict during his tenure as Mork. Goodness only knows what he did or didn’t do, and there probably wasn’t much in the latter category!
He was certainly not a good role model at that time. I don’t know whether he ever became one. I do understand that he later gave up drugs, or at least coke.
The possibility for false accusations has always been there. The difference is that true accusations are more likely to be taken seriously now than they were before.
When I was in band in college, there was a guy like that. I’ll call him Mooseballs, because that’s what everyone in the band called him. Well, one day at a party, one of the ladies was drunk out of her skull, and so Mooseballs, being a gentleman, was helping her home. Specifically, by carrying her. Except that when he picked her up, she started flailing and kicking and so on. And so, being a gentleman, he put her back down where she was: He didn’t often get that sort of reaction, but he clearly understood what it meant.
The next morning, when the lady in question sobered up and her friends told her what happened, she was very upset, not because Moose had tried to pick her up, but because she had resisted. Which she wouldn’t even have dreamed of doing, had she been sober.
Hey! That was me!. I AM MOOSEBALLS.
(Not really. But the idea of claiming his fame was irresistibly tickling to me)
(He was the drummer, right?)
Actually, IIRC he was on sax. But it’s been a long time; I’m not certain.
If he was a gentleman in a rock/blues band, he was definitely the sax player.
You clearly haven’t been paying attention. There has always been sexual harassment. There have always been false accusations. There have always been grey areas where someone was an asshole or someone overreacted, but everyone kept their heads.
Today, we have absolutely no idea what’s a true accusation and what’s a false one. You’re tried in the court of public opinion. Punishment is doled out. We never come back and actually analyze the facts and things that are recounted from 10, 20, 30 years ago are treated like gospel truth and context and contemporaneous perceptions are irrelevant.
Things were unfair before and the culture was pretty backwards. The balance of power has shifted, and that’s overdue. But we believe in due process for a very good reason in most other matters. We’re in a time where facts, norms and institutions are collapsing all around us. This one just happens to feel better, so damn the consequences. So I guess what’s one more move to anarchy? Mob rule for all!
Pam Dawber had a Velociraptor?
One of the things we’re learning nowadays is that many women who “seemed to love” the harassing behavior of certain men who had power over their careers did not actually love it as much as they seemed to. Who’da thunk, right?
It hasn’t shifted all that much. There are still plenty of women being victimized by, e.g., online troll campaigns sparked by groundless or exaggerated accusations (e.g., Gamergate). I’m guessing, however, that that’s not the particular failure of “due process” that you’re complaining about here.
A rock/blues band? Just what kind of nerd do you think I am? This was a scramble band.
And good riddance.
It often wasn’t fun to be the object of those jokes, but calling people out on it could cost one a job.
The title may well be infelicitous but a bald-faced lie? Dawber says she was groped by Williams and that he acted similarly with others. Someone who gropes others, whether in fun or otherwise, is a groper. Care to point out the bald-faced lie? I don’t think he groped for sexual pleasure BTW, if indeed that’s relevant.
He was literally a groper, but the implication of the word nowadays is that the groping is done without consent.