Roger Stone says Koch gave Romney $100 million to name Ryan

:rolleyes:

I suppose you think the Koch brothers should have grown their business out of the goodness of their hearts instead of for their own profit?

Do you feel the same way about George Soros and unions giving so much to Democrats and their causes?

Not at all. They saw opportunities and took advantage of them. Good for them. I just don’t think they should be lionized as public benefactors for having done so.

When judging opinions, I personally think it’s very helpful to keep in mind, to never forget, that Martin Hyde not only thinks that homosexuals are mentally ill, he was one of the bigoted bullies who drove our beloved Sampiro away from the Dope.

In general I agree, though I’d like to know what percentage you think the workers had to contribute. Not that there isn’t plenty one can criticize about the old-timey moguls, it’s pretty well-known that most of the largest business leaders in American history were also philanthropists of one type or another (John D. Rockefeller, Aaron Montgomery Ward, Henry Ford, for instance. Cornelius Vanderbilt built a railroad system that’s still in use today. What legacy will the Koch Brothers leave behind?

Of course they should have done it for their own interests. And there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

It doesn’t make them bad. But doesn’t make then ‘great’ or ‘heroic’ either. I think we all need to keep a little perspective here.

Please explain how any business owner could be noble, by your definition. Surely you are not saying that no business owner can be noble, simply because they own a business that increases in value if it succeeds?

If they wanted to be called “heroes”, yes, they should have.

I was responding to what i thought was Robot Arm’s negative reaction to the fact that someone did something for their own profit v. the “public good.” If Robot Arm was really just commenting on the definition of “hero,” then fine, no quarrel from me.

Robot Arm, even if you don’t want to use the word “hero” (which I don’t have a quarrel with), I don’t see why you would object to describing anyone who’s built a successful business as a “public benefactor.” They’ve built something that benefits lots of people. Sounds like a “public benefactor” to me.

Also, clairobscur, I’m not aware of them ever wanting to be called heroes, so your post is a bit of a non sequitur.

Who the fuck gives a shit about a bunch of gay people? I understand it’s a pet topic here, but it’s 100% off topic to this thread.

Would depend on the workers. All the blue collar, manufacturing type workers the Kochs employ? They’re as replaceable as a trash can or a hammer, and are not individually particularly valuable. All the chemical engineers and etc? They had real value.

Why, the lovely iridescent rainbows that float on polluted water! Beautiful!

anyone who cares about civil rights. you know, Real Americans.

Do the denialist think tanks they give money to and have in the payroll have real value?

Decent folks.

I admire Bill Gates, not for making money, but for spending some of it to do things like eradicating malaria, and for taking an active role to see that it’s well spent. Rich people have endowed universities, libraries, hospitals, museums, etc. I consider those things to be noble (somewhat tempered by the fact that they tend to name such things after themselves).

Interesting that you jumped to that conclusion of what prompted my “negative reaction”.

I consider a benefactor to be someone who gives a gift or a donation. The jobs the Kochs created are not gifts, and there is nothing noble about creating them in the process of enriching themselves. And I particularly object to the possibility that they may gain greater access to, or favorable treatment from, the government for having done so.

I disagree. If not for the current political climate, all their money would get very little political traction. The conservatives have always had the money, they’ve just never had the votes until the tea party came along and gave them something they could use to leverage their money. Now they’ve got a lion by the tail and they have to deal with folks like Todd Akin.

I think they’re talking about the fact that money can have this sort of influence at all.

You have a very broad definition of the word hero.

I suppose the average American Joe who fought and died on Normandy beach should be very grateful to the Koch brothers (greatest American heroes) for making America a great country. Its the average American that makes America great. Every country has its share of really greedy bastards that make as much money as they can.

Yeah but why lionize them? Why treat them like we all owe our prosperity to them rather than the other way around?

I think you are not appreciating the Ayn Rand perspective of the self interested man as hero of society.

When Jonas Salk invented the polio vaccine and refused to patent it, he was a public benefactor. Some level of altruism (no matter how despicable the notion may be to you) is a necessary component of the “benefactor” title.

And it is this notion that labor is just a fungible cost of production that will ruin civilization. Road to serfdom indeed.

You obviously haven’t read Atlas Shrugged. These guys are the heroes of civilization. You know… Job Creators.

Yay, straw! Just for the record, I don’t believe anything that dumbassuri is trying to stuff in my mouth.

That’s almost amusing, coming from the guy who wrote this:

Martin’s views on homosexuality are ignorant and unscientific. It certainly reflects an inability to see past his own prejudices and preconceptions. It seemed so absurd, I had a hard time believing it the first time he laid it out on this MB.

However, Sampiro has a thicker skin that that, and if let “bullies” drive him away from here, that speaks more to me about his own person weakness. And I say that having stated several times that he is one my favorite posters on this MB. I doubt he’ll really stay away once he cools off.

You mean like this?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=15426807

Personally, I like what Oscar Wilde wrote on individualism and the demeaning nature of charity.