Roland Deschain, I have some choice words for you.

[stretch]

@Roland Deschain

By the way I don’t think I have Aspergers based upon my answers to the questions below from that website:

<snip>

I find it hard to work out what other people are thinking and feeling.
Answer: No I have an almost supernatural ability to discern what others are feeling.

You’re kidding, right? Roland, you suck at self-assessment.

[Zsofia]

I do have to say that your GQ threads right now are just fine and a-okay, however. At least they were when I went to bed last night; if any has train-wrecked that’s not my fault.

[Grits_and_Hard_Toast]

@Roland Deschain

As to the social cues thing I’ve made a living out of ignoring social cues since I was a wee little child. People’s little “social games” have always struck me as inane and unnessary. I’ve never flirted, told jokes or engaged in pointless banter that was intended to convey something specific. Also, I’ve always tried to ask the questions that others won’t without regard to so called “political correctness”. To me every perspective should be examined and nothing is out of bounds unless presented in a deliberately hostile manner.

" I only ask questions that I legitimately care about. If anything I’ve always thought of myself as even “more sincere” since I ask without regard to what people will think of me for so asking. Furthermore, I always try to put my true opinions on issues."

Ronald,
In reading this thread, I am curious what your thoughts are concerning this conversation I had the other night when I went to my local pub and sat down at the bar to watch a horse race on TVG. I see some recurring themes, do you?

I sit down, two seats over is a guy I have never seen before.

Him: The horse you were cheering for won, did you have a big bet on it?

Me: No, that horse is trained by a friend, he had a rough time last meet, but his horses are doing really well now. I was just glad to see him get another winner.

Him: You ride horses though don’t you? I can tell by the way your thighs are all wide and spread out on the stool. The rest of you is really small, but your thighs are really out of proportion. Women who ride horses a lot often have big floppy thighs like yours.

(I am wearing a pair of Levis, sitting down, my thighs are not “flopping.” I consider telling him I was once very overweight, and working out has helped some but I will most likely always have big thighs, but I really don’t want to discuss my thighs with anyone, much less a total stranger.)

Me: Well, ah, the race is over, going back to sit with my friends. See ya.

Him: What is the matter? I was just being honest. People now days just want to hear the good stuff, even if it is a lie. If I lied to you and told you your thighs looked great, I bet you wouldn’t be in such a rush to leave. No, you would much prefer mindless, pointless small talk. I am the only one in this bar that you could have an honest meaningful discussion with, but you can’t handle any honesty so now you run away. Go on then…it is your loss. I should have known you would be so vapid when I saw you had painted fingernails.

Me: Well if I asked you your opinion of my thighs, you might have a point. But I did not ask for opinion of my thighs and I find it rude when complete strangers make a point to bring up my figure flaws. So either you are just looking to start a fight, and want me to respond with how unfortunate it is that you have lost most of your hair because you have a really disturbingly misshaped head, and bald does not look good on you like it does on many men…or you are just plain cruel, and enjoy making others feel bad, perhaps making yourself feel better in the process. Either way, I am off to find more enjoyable company.

Him: There was no need for you to insult me personally. I was just commenting on the fact that I have noticed women who have really big thighs tend to ride horses a lot. I did not mean to insult you. If I did insult you, I apologize. You evidently have some issues concerning you thighs, but how was I supposed to know that? I just hate how I have to censor my every thought because something I might say might offend someone. I wish people could be more real, not need to play these stupid games.

Me: Well, I will just remove my flappy-thighed, vapid, fingernail painted self, so you might have chance to sit with another like your superior self. I doubt I will ever see you again in here, so I will say just say good bye now.

After about three hours, he paid his tab, ( three cokes, so can’t blame it on the booze talking) and was asked by the manager not to return. Every person that sat next to him shortly got up and moved. Poor guy couldn’t find one person who could truly appreciate his “honesty” and “individualism.”

So Ronald, do you see any of yourself in this little exchange? Do you think I missed out on a chance to meet a real honest individual? Or can you see why when I returned to my friends I advised them to avoid “the creepy guy” at the bar?

[Wendell_Wagner]

Roland Deschain, I have to wonder why you continue to post to a thread like this. Consider the following: There are two possibilities. Either the advice in this thread is good or it isn’t. (I’m not as sure as some people here that the advice is good. Some of it strikes me as the attempts of amateurs to do a job that would be difficult for a professional. I hardly ever post to advice threads because I don’t think I’m very good at giving personal advice. I’m not convinced that the advice here is so good either.) But, in any case, you should see that given either of the two possibilities, it’s not worth your time to continue to post to this thread. If the advice here is good, you’re clearly not benefiting from it. Is it then worth the time you spend to argue about it? If the advice here is bad, it’s even less worth your time. Perhaps then a professional could give you better advice. As expensive as it might be, it would still be a bargain compared to arguing about the advice from amateurs whose opinion you don’t respect.

[Roland_Deschain]

In response to some of the above points:

1. Unlike the guy at the bar not only have I never intentionally insulted anyone, I’ve gone to real extremes to NOT insult people. In fact my friends were shocked an amazed that I used to go out with girls who asked me out that I wasn’t even attracted to just to avoid hurting their feelings (this was of course when I was someone that girls might actually wish to ask out on occasion).

2. When I have given “so called insults” it has not been intentional. For example we went over to a friends house last night and had individual pizzas. I ate one, and when I went to make another I mentioned that I was going to cook it a bit longer because I really like a more done, pizza. When we got home my wife said that I had insulted my friends wife by saying and doing this. Had I been the guy at the bar I probably would have been so uncomfortable by the presence of a female that I would have gotten up, gone to the restroom and never returned. Alternatively, had you initiated conversation I would have discussed various and sundry issues ranging from quantum mechanics, to the persistence of nail fungus, but would have avoided most eye contact and again at some point would have ended the conversation and left. Note that I would have done this even if you were my “dream girl” and I was single. Indeed, I would probably treat someone who I was not attracted to even better than someone than I was (not that I would ever actually look at someone long enough to know if I was attracted to them or not) just to overcompensate for any possible “bad vives” that I might give them. At the same time speaking in front of a large crowd would cause me minimal discomfort by comparison, and in that context even eye contact doesn’t bother me.

3. I don’t know why I keep replying other than a compulsion to try and explain why I do what I do (it is at this point that I rememeber a certain X-files episode where the bad guy asks a life insurance salesman who can predict death with ESP why it is that he does the bad things that he does. The life insurance guy with ESP replies simply and to the point “because you are completely insane”.

[Primaflora]

@WhyNot

You know what I said in that other thread (now closed) about doubting a medical problem and that Roland was just “a jerk”?

Scratch that. Reverse it.

This whole thing has been a fascinating window into Asperger’s Syndrome, I’m now sure of it. The lack of social ability or the desire for social connection, the eye-avoidance, the tangential thinking, the admitedly brilliant mind incapable of truly communicating and connecting with others, yet he keeps on talking, as if repeating the same series of actions will yield new results.

[Spock] Fascinating, Jim [/Spock]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!Noooooooooooooooooooooooo! It has been a fascinating look in the mind of Roland but it hasn’t been a look into the mind of someone with Aspergers.

Trust me, they’re generally not that weird or creepy or socially inappropriate.

[ZipperJJ]

@Jonathan Woodall

True. When my sainted ex-girlfriend told me I had Asperger’s, it changed my life. I was able to start working on things I’d never worked on before, because I’d never understood the nature of the deficiencies I was working under.
Since I learned of the syndrome, I’ve gone from an apparent bizarre, moody sociopath to an apparent quiet man with unusually narrow and focused interests. Don’t get me started talking about cars or computers, and you might think I was normal. Shy, but normal.

Well huh. I am said “sainted ex-girlfriend” and I agree here with this assessment.

Ever since I’ve noticed Roland as a poster (who can ignore him?) I seriously thought that he either WAS Jonathan Woodall under a new name, and then decided he wasn’t but the two of them would make good friends.

Even tho this is the Pit, I shall refrain from exclaming how Roland’s wife should run for the hills based on how and why I became Jonathan’s ex. :dubious:

[Roland_Deschain]

@ZipperJJ

Well huh. I am said “sainted ex-girlfriend” and I agree here with this assessment.

Ever since I’ve noticed Roland as a poster (who can ignore him?) I seriously thought that he either WAS Jonathan Woodall under a new name, and then decided he wasn’t but the two of them would make good friends.

Even tho this is the Pit, I shall refrain from exclaming how Roland’s wife should run for the hills based on how and why I became Jonathan’s ex. :dubious:

Again, I don’t think that I have Asperger’s. A key element of Aspergers (in my understanding) is the lack of ability to “empathize” with other’s feelings. Even my wife will abmit that my ability to ascertain other’s feelings (and often thoughts) is almost scary. Often during a conversation I can tell you exactly what my wife and mother in law (who both live with me) think and feel about an issue without them saying a word. The same is true with many of my friends. My problem is how I “react” to others despite knowing how they feel about issues. Also, when I consider their feelings, thoughts or actions illogical I tend to disregard them and then go on to explain why they should instead feel as I do about the issue. Combine this with an ego that fluxates between " I am the rightful ruler of the universe" and “I am a lowly servant not fit to wash the feet of a homeless person” depending on the circumstances, and you’ve got me down.

[Jillyvn]

@Roland Deschain

Again, I don’t think that I have Asperger’s. A key element of Aspergers (in my understanding) is the lack of ability to “empathize” with other’s feelings. Even my wife will abmit that my ability to ascertain other’s feelings (and often thoughts) is almost scary. Often during a conversation I can tell you exactly what my wife and mother in law (who both live with me) think and feel about an issue without them saying a word. The same is true with many of my friends. My problem is how I “react” to others despite knowing how they feel about issues. Also, when I consider their feelings, thoughts or actions illogical I tend to disregard them and then go on to explain why they should instead feel as I do about the issue. Combine this with an ego that fluxates between " I am the rightful ruler of the universe" and “I am a lowly servant not fit to wash the feet of a homeless person” depending on the circumstances, and you’ve got me down.

I’d reread this statement, hence quoting it in full below your original post. There is a big difference between empathy and being able to acertain something. BIG. I don’t know if you have aspergers, and frankly I’m not going to jump on the diagnosis train. But, you do seem to have something going on here - disregarding the feelings of others and then explaining how you think they should feel? I just got out of a relationship with a guy who did that, and everyone who met him invariably hated him. He rubbed people the wrong way.

You should work on THAT.

[WhyNot]

@Roland Deschain

Again, I don’t think that I have Asperger’s. A key element of Aspergers (in my understanding) is the lack of ability to “empathize” with other’s feelings. Even my wife will abmit that my ability to ascertain other’s feelings (and often thoughts) is almost scary. Often during a conversation I can tell you exactly what my wife and mother in law (who both live with me) think and feel about an issue without them saying a word. The same is true with many of my friends. My problem is how I “react” to others despite knowing how they feel about issues. Also, when I consider their feelings, thoughts or actions illogical I tend to disregard them and then go on to explain why they should instead feel as I do about the issue. Combine this with an ego that fluxates between " I am the rightful ruler of the universe" and “I am a lowly servant not fit to wash the feet of a homeless person” depending on the circumstances, and you’ve got me down.

I’m not attempting to diagnose you, simply chastising myself a bit for not seriously considering the possibility. Only a professional can make a diagnosis, and only after meeting with you personally. Which you’re not willing to do. Fine. But to then keep offering justifications and explanations for your behavior which neither justify or explain anything is simply illogical. To say that you don’t care what others think about you and then to try to change how we think about you simply doesn’t grok.

Two points:

1. My brother has Asperger’s. His description of his mental process around “empathy” is identical to yours. He understands and knows and feels what others are thinking - he just finds it irrelevant and the information is not a factor in how he chooses to behave. In his case “lack of ability to “empathize” with other’s feelings” is what his Asperger’s looks like to the outside observer, not how it feels to him on the inside. Checklists are not a replacement for professional diagnosis, and you not feeling you don’t meet this one criteria does not mean the possibility is moot. My brother doesn’t feel he fits it either, but he certainly earned the diagnosis, and the treatment strategies have helped him (and the rest of us) immensely.

2. The Dope is a wide and varied board. There are literally tens of thousands of people who read and post here. No matter how bizzare, fetishistic, or downright loopy any particular post is, there is inevitably someone who agrees with it. Even Liberal and Reeder have back-up. Not one single post in this very long thread has been supportive of your actions towards your wife, your refusal to seek counseling, or your TMI posting style on this messageboard. While I’m not saying every personal desicion should be made by popular vote, I do think it is a telling statistic.