Rome, FINAL EPISODE, a.d. IIII ID. MART. MMDCCLX A.U.C. (spoiler thread)

[Trunk]

I figured Vorenus died. I just bought into the movie cliché where he stayed alive just long enough to reconcile from the death bed kind of crap.

[Caffeine.addict]

@Grossbottom

I’d suggest that the character of Lucius Vorenus, a primus pilus in a Caesarian legion serving from (probably) the beginning of the Gallic Wars all the way to the Ides and beyond, could mildly be described as being one of the most individually dangerous human beings living in the Roman Empire at the time. Pushing fifty with family issues would just make him especially ornery.

But I agree his making it home would not be especially likely, though better knowledge of prevailing wind currents could change my opinion on that.

I just can’t imagine that with the life they lived, and the attendant quality of medical care and their relative social classes that they would be able to still move like that.

Of course, they haven’t aged the children to that level. Young Lucius should be nineteen with the other children being in their mid twenties to mid Thirties. Wasn’t Vorena the elder married to that shepherd in the first season? Giving her an age of 14 that means that she is 33 at this point.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved this series and only kept HBO to watch it. However, the way that the sped up the timeline over the last few episodes was annoying.

[alphaboi867]

@Caffeine.addict

…Wasn’t Vorena the elder married to that shepherd in the first season? Giving her an age of 14 that means that she is 33 at this point…

Close, her husband was about to turn 14, I think Vorena was 12/13. Even the adults weren’t aged that well. Octavia should’ve been pushing 40 by the end of the show.

[hajario]

Re Voreneus dying, the following is from the official HBO episode recap.

Pullo arrives home with the dying Vorenus, but his children don’t want to see him. Watching Lyde nurse him, Vorena the Elder finally comes to her father to say goodbye, and her brother and sister follow her lead. Vorenus can die in peace.

[Merneith]

@Lissa

She whispered to her slave that she wished Ceasar were here with her now because she was “between the floods and a child would come as surely as spring.” After she says that, the slave and she exchange a look and Vorenus is summoned.

ohh - I forgot about that.

[AuntiePam]

@hajario

Re Voreneus dying, the following is from the official HBO episode recap.

HBO recaps aren’t always accurate. I don’t have a particular one in mind, but I know they’ve messed up before with The Sopranos and Deadwood.

See how much in denial I am about Vorenus surviving?

[melangell]

I think it is possible that Vorenus did not die, but I guess we’ll never know for sure

I can’t believe that HBO ended this series after only two seasons. Not even a two hour series finale :mad: . Just awful…

Sniff, I am so sad that Rome is over, but, luckily, The Tudors will start on Showtime soon. I guess the timing is kinda like a sandbag for all of us historical drama junkies who are feeling bereft

[melangell]

I amend my previous post. I re-watched the last episode last night and now I am sure that Vorenus did go belly-up (sniff).

[Sonia_Montdore]

@alphaboi867

…And was that an actual Egyptian women tied to the cart during the triumph scene or just a dummy and wig?

I wondered the same thing. There was a man in Roman soldier’s garb tied on the other side of the cart. I figure there are two possibilities …

1. The figures were dummies meant to represent A & C and were dressed up in his armor and her wig and jewels

2. Or - gruesome thought - the figures were A & C’s actual bodies. Not impossible; they died in Egypt, after all and could have been mummified before being shipped out to Rome.

What a nifty parade float.

[Lissa]

@Sonia Montdore

I wondered the same thing. There was a man in Roman soldier’s garb tied on the other side of the cart. I figure there are two possibilities …

1. The figures were dummies meant to represent A & C and were dressed up in his armor and her wig and jewels

2. Or - gruesome thought - the figures were A & C’s actual bodies. Not impossible; they died in Egypt, after all and could have been mummified before being shipped out to Rome.

What a nifty parade float.

The histories say that Octavian, not having the actual Cleopatra to put on parade, had a statue of her made and dressed in her clothing to be paraded through the streets of Rome. Supposedly, small puncture wounds were painted on her arm and/or there was an image of a snake with her.

[alphaboi867]

@Lissa

The histories say that Octavian, not having the actual Cleopatra to put on parade, had a statue of her made and dressed in her clothing to be paraded through the streets of Rome. Supposedly, small puncture wounds were painted on her arm and/or there was an image of a snake with her.

What did happen to the real Cleopatra’s body? Does she have a tomb in Egypt somewhere or did Octavian have it burned or thrown in a river?

[Sonia_Montdore]

@Lissa

The histories say that Octavian, not having the actual Cleopatra to put on parade, had a statue of her made and dressed in her clothing to be paraded through the streets of Rome. Supposedly, small puncture wounds were painted on her arm and/or there was an image of a snake with her.

Thanks, Lissa! That solves that question. Although I kinda hoped Atia was being forced to gaze on Antony’s corpse.

[Lissa]

@alphaboi867

What did happen to the real Cleopatra’s body? Does she have a tomb in Egypt somewhere or did Octavian have it burned or thrown in a river?

She had already built a giant mausoleum, and that’s where she holed up when Octavian entered Alexandria. She stuffed it full of treasure and tried to use it to bargain with Octavian for her freedom and the lives of her children by saying she’d set fire to the whole mess and burn up with it. It didn’t work. According to the story Octavian spread, after she died, the soldiers entered the mausoleum and saw her body laid out in all of her finery, being tended to by her dying maids.

The ancient style of embalming had pretty much died out by then, but it’s likely that Octavian allowed the normal rites to take place and allowed her to be buried in her mausoleum (sans treasure.) He wouldn’t want to piss off the populace by defiling their queen’s remains, especially when there wasn’t anything to be gained by it. Above all, Octavian was pragmatic.

Scholars believe the mausoleum and palace were later destroyed by earthquake and ended up at the bottom of the bay, so that’s probably what happened to her corpse as well. I have no idea what happened to Antony’s remains, but his will supposedly directed that he be buried in Egypt, so it’s possible he was entombed with Cleo in the mausoleum.

[theman1632]

I think that it is pretty clear that Vorenus is dead. Keep in mind that all along the writers of Rome have used Vorenus to symbolize the Roman Republic, especially its values. See, for example, his constant devotion to duty, how he freaked out when they crossed the Rubicon, his traditional ideas about family, etc.

At the end of the last episode when Vorenus is laying in bed in Rome and he hears the sound of Octavian’s triumph he says something along the lines of he thought he was dying. This wasn’t a throw away line on the writers’ behalf. Octavian’s victory was essentially the death knell of the Republic; and it only makes sense that they would use the death of Vorenus, who is always associated with the republic, to symbolize that

[commasense]

@theman1632

I think that it is pretty clear that Vorenus is dead. Keep in mind that all along the writers of Rome have used Vorenus to symbolize the Roman Republic, especially its values.

[snip]

and it only makes sense that they would use the death of Vorenus, who is always associated with the republic, to symbolize that

Posts like this really piss me off!

Because I didn’t figure out the symbolism myself!

[Liberal]

@theman1632

I think that it is pretty clear that Vorenus is dead. Keep in mind that all along the writers of Rome have used Vorenus to symbolize the Roman Republic, especially its values. See, for example, his constant devotion to duty, how he freaked out when they crossed the Rubicon, his traditional ideas about family, etc.

At the end of the last episode when Vorenus is laying in bed in Rome and he hears the sound of Octavian’s triumph he says something along the lines of he thought he was dying. This wasn’t a throw away line on the writers’ behalf. Octavian’s victory was essentially the death knell of the Republic; and it only makes sense that they would use the death of Vorenus, who is always associated with the republic, to symbolize that

An excellent contribution, Theman1632. Welcome to the Straight Dope.

[theman1632]

@Liberal

An excellent contribution, Theman1632. Welcome to the Straight Dope.

Thanks