ROTJ: What if...

What if Luke had defeated Vader, resisted the Emperor’s temptations… and then been able to slay the Emperor without help? Perhaps an unanswerable question, but anyone want to take a shot?

I don’t think it would change the outcome much, other than Luke escaping the new Death Star with more ease, since he wouldn’t be wasting time with that death scene. And you wouldn’t see Sebastian Shaw show up next to Yoda and Obi-Wan as a happy ghost at the end.
No, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Sebastian Shaw was standing next to them.

“Rolling on Tommy James?”

Quite a few people complain about the change of Hayden as the Anakin ghost as opposed to Sebastian. Apparently its a huge plot hole to have the younger Anakin appear instead of Anakin at the age of his death.

I, on the other hand, have better things to do with my time. I spend my time pondering the real plot hole: Why does Anakin’s ghost appear wearing a traditional brown Jedi robe? Anakin has NEVER worn brown. :frowning:

He was made an official Jedi post mortem.

It’s a Jedi thing, you wouldn’t understand.

“Raping Orange Tasmanian Jackasses”

Meh. All this mess could have been avoided if the gunner of the Star Destroyer in Ep. IV had ignored his superior’s order and shot the escape pod Threepio and R2 were in.

No R2, no Death Star plans, no meeting with Kenobi, no Luke, no trip to Alderaan, no Jedi training. An opportunity wasted.

Palpatine was destroyed by Chaos Theory. :frowning:

Believe, me, looking at Sebastian Shaw’s face (no offense oh mighty Shaw!) I’m glad of the change.

Oh, come now, Eve. While granted that you’re not a geek, and therefore might reasonably not have recognized the acronym for “Return of the Jedi”, surely you at least recognized the name Vader in the OP? And surely, with that established, you should have deduced the movie to fit the acronym?

It wouldn’t have made any difference, since the actual heros of RotJ are the Wookie and Lando and that little ugly dude with Lando. Everything Luke did was inconsequential to the defeat of the Empire and the Death of the Emporer. Luke’s only victory was in somehow turning Anakin back to the light side… which makes up for his murders of millions which he never really got around to apologizing for… Luke MIGHT have convinced Vader to let the Wookie’s strike force pass, but then the Emporer was planning on their plot being foiled on the planet anyway (which probably makes the speederbike chase irrelevant too, since the Emp still wanted them to THINK they were going to take down the sheild generator right at the last second). But after that Luke could have stayed and partied with the Ewoks and the Empire still would have ended up just as defeated, Emporer just as dead, and probably Vader too.

I think the only change would have been Luke spending the Endor party bemoaning the fact that he’d killed his father and the Emperor, and wondering if that takes him too close to the dark side. It’s better the way it is–I’d rather see ghost Anakin (at any age–but I don’t have a problem with the insertion of Hayden Christensen, mostly because I just like to look at him :wink: ) than watch Luke pistol-whip himself over what he had to do to save the galaxy.

But if Luke wasn’t keeping the Emperor focused on what was happening inside the Death Star, would Lando and co win? Who knows the Dark Side powers he could have called upon if undisturbed.

Regarding the OP, I don’t think it would have much of a difference.

My question is this: After Luke chops off Vader’s hand, why does he throw his lightsaber away??? Yes, Luke, I know you’ve already won you’re metaphorical battle with the Emperor by not turning to the dark side, but you might still have to, you know, fight the dude in the literal sense. Did you forget what Yoda told you just a few scenes ago? DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE EMPEROR!

And what do we learn in Episode 2? Lightsabers can absorb those electric-shock attacks. Gee, I wonder if that ability might have come in handy. . .


You want Chaos theory, I’ll give you Chaos theory. The rebellion was saved by Han’s clumsiness.

If he hadn’t stepped a fallen branch, then he would have taken out the biker scout silently. One wouldn’t have gotten away, and Luke and Leia wouldn’t have given chase. They wouldn’t have met the Ewoks, who were instrumental in both finding the back door, and in the victory at the shield generator.

That branch saved the rebellion.


According to some sources in the books, the Emperor was guiding his forces remotely via the Force. When he died, the imperials became less organized, allowing the rebels to get through the defenses and destroy the death star. Granted, it’s not implied at all in the movie, but unlike most rationalizations from the books, I’m willing to go with it to make Luke’s efforts mean something.

Oh, and the ugly dude is Nien Numb. And you forgot Wedge. :slight_smile:

But wasn’t he wearing the brown robe at the beginning of Attack of the Clones, when he first starts drooling over Padme and getting all whiny-assed about Obi-Wan?

That reminds me of another ROTJ detail I’ve wondered about. If the brown robe was traditional Jedi garb, why did Luke end up wearing that slick * black* uniform? Before the prequels, I always thought THAT was the traditional Jedi Knight outfit, and the brown robe was just Obi-Wan’s thing. (Even the toys called the black suit “Jedi Knight outfit.”) Yet in Eps I and II, all the good Jedi wear the brown robes and only the Sith wear black. Darth Maul’s outfit in Episode I looks awfully similar to Luke’s in ROTJ. Why was Luke adopting Sith fashion? And why did my action figure lie to me?

I’m sure George Lucas has a very good explanation for this. Uh-huh. Yep.

Yes. Dark brown, but he was wearing standard Jedi garb, IIRC.

I chalk it up to Luke being the only Jedi in the galaxy (as far as he knew), and not knowing any better.

Besides, black is slimming. :slight_smile:

Face facts, true believers. If it weren’t for one little droid, Palpatine would be ruling for eternity. R2-D2 saved the entire universe, singlehandedly.

Of course. The droids are the true heroes.

Oh, and RotJ means “Rot Jar-Jar”

It’s really because he figured black is slimming.