If educational outcomes were on a par with other groups after a few generations that would perhaps make it slightly more understandable, but that isn’t the case.
So, I understand there are strong emotional and ethnocentric reasons for supporting entry from ones ethnic group: hence strong Hispanic support for more of their own.
From a neutral standpoint it is likely to result in lower per-capita income and educational outcomes in the US.
Bernie Sanders is expressing serious concerns about the bill’s effect on American workers:
Please, if there is even one that is more discredited for following crackpots it is Chen019.
As usual when good sources are referred to (no cite BTW, this shows that the good cite was misinterpreted by a crackpot sources and in this case quick searchers show that this is the case, the extreme numbers are cited by racist places that forget to report the whole picture.)
http://www.cato.org/publications/free-trade-bulletin/fiscal-impact-immigration-reform-real-story
So yes, future historians, and that includes me BTW, will have to report on the alarmism coming from the crackpots that only report on half of studies so as to get the “right” information and distorted to others.
This forum is for politics. The scientific racism stuff goes in GD. Or Stormfront.
As for the other cite, once again more misrepresentation by looking only at the problem and not at what the experts are saying the reasons are and what is happening.
Of course, one can count on the Republicans on making sure there is no improvement for other Hispanics.
I have found that many times it is racist sources that get a hold of good reports and cherry pick or misinterpret the hell out of them, and then readers of the crackpots copy and paste the results; as I see, it racism is at the bottom a virulent form of ignorance and one should see the ones going for the misinterpretations as pushers of crackpotery like the tax evaders have it with gold fringes around the American flag.
His concerns are also the ones mentioned before, and mostly dealing with the future immigration and just demanding rules so employers do not abuse the changes.
So, concern noted, but the support for the bill is still there. Here is a tip though, stop relying on third parties telling you what reports and documents are actually saying, you do not want to end up like Chen019.
Who gives a shit if Miguel can’t speak english and its annoying to be standing behind him in line? American has no, nor should it ever, official language. I would rather they take the language part out
Because countries balkanized by language differences are never in harmony. Not even Canada, and certainly not Belgium.
You can have a nation of many religions, many races, many ideologies, but one thing you cannot have is a nation of many languages. There has to be a common tongue, and English is our Common.
Which is beside the point. Politically you can’t sell the public an immigration reform bill without pro-assimilation measures like English proficiency. We’re already having serious problems with assimilation it’s part of what’s broken about our system. So that, too, has to be fixed.
Balkanized like Switzerland, say?
Of course, India and China each have even more languages than Switzerland, but I suppose you would argue that they don’t count for some reason.
I don’t think adaher is taking any evidence that contradicts him in mind.
Taking my cue from Chris Rock, the first thing we should do to encourage assimilation is to change the name of San Diego to Gus Johnson.
Oh well, deal with it. I find it funny that for conservatives, any freedom of theirs is too precious to touch but freedom for others? Oh yeah, touch them!
Well, not funny, just pathetically common nowadays.
As a conservative or a libertarian, your response to the language question SHOULD be: so what? If America is divided, so what? If people don’t get along, so what? If immigrants never identify as Americans over their native origins, so what? The right to speak the language you want overrides all of that.
Tell me, if someone said you had to learn another language to live “freely” someplace else, would you think that’s free?
No immigrant should be forced to learn a language as a condition of becoming a citizen. If shit happens, here’s an idea, LET IT HAPPEN
So exactly where in the Constitution is the federal government given the power to set an official “national language”? I must have missed that part…
There is no official US language, although under liberal interpretations of the commerce clause, the government actually could establish a national language. Thank God for conservative justices who limited the commerce power, huh?
Anyway, no, there’s no official US language, but the Constitution was written in English and all immigrants must understand it to become citizens. Plus, as has been pointed out, English is our common tongue and last I checked, the public was never consulted on us converting into a binational state like Canada.
Let’s see, you acknowledge there is no official language, but argue it still should be learned even though there’s no legal or moral reason to, because a document written 200 years ago used that language, then claim we’re a binational state (still, I assume, knowing that you just said there’s no official language and therefore its impossible to be binational [and assuming you meant bilingual]) and are upset because somehow the public needs to be consulted on this, even though they vote for the people who set the laws and, last time I checked, no laws on either language or binationalism has ever been passed.
What is your argument again?
That’s alright adaher, businesses do not stop just to consider your problems with Spanish.
And it is not only there were Spanish will get more prevalent, IIRC xenophobic places like Arizona are shooting themselves in the foot as more Latin American business will go to other states as the local Hispanics are being discouraged from learning the language of their parents. That is leading a state into being less able to do business in areas that are growing.
IMHO fearing bilingualism is really silly.
http://nbclatino.com/2012/09/27/education-nation-the-real-benefits-of-being-bilingual/
No one fears bilingualism, as in people speaking more than one language. What is to be feared, based on the experience of every country in the world, is people living together and not understanding one another.
Balkanization never works out.
But anyway, Yogosouth, I see your point on the merits of the POLICY, but on the politics, learning English is a must if Americans are to support legalization and eventual citizenship. Don’t require it, and support for the bill evaporates.
I remember a minor enlightenment over a prejudice I didn’t even know I had. Cheech Marin, movie called Born in East L.A.. The set up is his Mom, asking him to go the border crossing and meet his cousin who is coming to the U.S. And Cheech’s character complains “Aw, Ma, you know my Spanish isn’t any good!”.
My surprise surprised me, I found myself wondering why I was surprised that Cheech, child of a Mom who’s first language was Spanish didn’t speak Spanish himself. Well, why would he, born in East L.A.?
Remember Michael in Godfather? Remember him speaking Sicilian with Solozzo, becoming frustrated with his lack of fluency, and switching to English?
Don’t worry about assimilation, it takes care of itself, the kids are all right. Has anyone ever met a second generation Chinese, Japanese, Hispanic, or Martian who didn’t speak perfectly ordinary American English? They will melt into the pot just like all the rest, but the pot they melt into will be slightly less bland that it was before. That’s goldurn bueno, far as I can see.
I agree, the second generation tends to assimilate just fine. But if that first generation wants citizenship, they have to pass that exam.