And having your cake and eating it too is not a consistent way of debating either. The fact remains that the biggest proponents of English only are also the ones most opposed to Bilingual education. They are also the most opposed to the immigration reform, it is way passed the time to assume that is just a coincidence.
What I worry about with these extra requirements is that they may lead to a semi-permanent underclass of low-paid workers. Americans are mostly decent folks, but they ain’t paying five dollars a head for iceberg lettuce.
The requirements aren’t what creates that. citizenship has nothing to do with economics. What creates the permanent underclass is importing poor people and then letting them get by without learning English, which is a necessary requirement to pick up skills in this country.
If you can’t speak English in the US, it’s no better than being illiterate. You’ll never be able to do anything but simple manual labor.
The English requirement works in conjunction with one of the other requirements, which is that in order to obtain permanent legal status, an immigrant must not be likely to become a burden on the welfare system. If you can’t speak English, it’s is a given that you will be receiving a lot of taxpayer assistance.
Of course obvious points are good filler, specially when used to avoid dealing with what the Republicans are doing in the real world. I already pointed at the examples of what Republicans are doing to prevent immigrants from going to school to learn English, among other things.
Be careful when citing what “Republicans” want when it comes to immigration reform. As proven by Senators McCain, Graham, and others as well as George W, while he was President, what Republican politicians want isn’t what a pretty large part of the Republican base wants.
Also when you take into account what Conservative lobbyists like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce say versus what Conservative activists say you see two diametrically opposing stands as well.
Republicans don’t move as a block on this issue. I really don’t think Democrats do either, but it depends on what specific aspect of reform you’re talking about.
I personally would like to see existing laws enforced and some serious consideration of what that would cost. It is virtually impossible to show math that demonstrates that enforcement (including deportation) would cost more than three decades of virtually no enforcement.
It absolutely does. Employers of illegal aliens often treat them like dirt, and can get away with treating them like dirt in large part because their employees, not being citizens, can’t take advantage of many of our societal safeguards. If a citizen’s workplace is unsafe, or he’s paid less than minimum wage, or whatever, he can take his employer to court. If an alien tries that, he gets deported.
Illegal aliens, yes. Legalization fixes those problems, maybe. Probably won’t help if the legals just get fired and replaced with more illegals.
Why? If the second generation assimilates as we all know they do, and you’ve acknowledged that, so what if the first generation can’t speak english? It won’t lead to your fear of Balkanization. Unless you think these english-speaking 2nd geners are going to suddenly try to take back California for Mexico or something
You just said the 2nd generation will assimilate fine! So what if their parents can’t speak english? How many immigrants immediately get rich in their adopted country anyway?
Which won’t really happen if people aren’t being afraid of deportation if they call the police. And if we have immigration reform that allows people who live and work here to be citizens
India’s not a very good example. There were language riots as recently as the 80s.
Citation needed.
Ice Director Kibble reported that deportation of an adult illegal not in custody would cost just under $13,000.
Average illegal family has at least two kids. At least! Thats $20,000 per year in public schools. Five years of school is $100,000.00 and the average earning of an illegal family is below the poverty line. Let’s assume $30,000 instead. (that’s higher) So, $150,000 in earnings with three dependents making the tax around $30,000.
Even if you assume total payment of taxes due and 100% efficiency of the tax dollar (which can’t happen) you wind up with a $70,000 debt and that’s just for schooling.
Deport that family at a cost of $52,000 (even though the kids don’t cost that much) and you still save tens of thousands. Every year after that you save the full bill.
This doesn’t account for medical, entitlements, infrastructure, law enforcement, etc.
In 2011 then director Kumar Kibble testified to this cost before Congress. The rest is estimates based on ICE stats, Center for Immigration Studies data, and common sense.
They’re poor. Their tax liability can NEVER cover the education bill unless those kids grow up and don’t have kids. Also, you have the legal option to fine the employer of any illegal $10,000 offsetting part of the cost of the deportations.
Of course, you can say, “What if they come back?” and that makes the very strong point that without border enforcement, we’re doomed no matter what we do.
Interesting that a previous poster tried to bring up Switzerland in order to debunk my assertion.
Switzerland is quite balkanized, just peacefully so. Primarily because each canton is self-governing in a way that liberals would never tolerate here.
If you agree to regions speaking different languages, then you agree to weakening the federal government, just as is the case in Canada, Belgium, and yes, Switzerland.
Or, we could go the China route and squelch all expressions of nationalism by force other than loyalty to the state.
You do not keep with the news uh?
That’s why part of the reform should be an expedited process. People who overstay visas shouldn’t be entitled to access to our courts. It should be like an eviction of someone who overstays a lease. You’re supposed to leave on June 25, you get a knock on your door on June 26.
The bill mandates an entry/exit system, so we’re going to have a database of every single visitor who overstays. And these aren’t even immigrants. Just visitors.
Actually the normal in Switzerland is that most speak more than one language.
Of course, as pointed before in a different thread, the weakness of the federal government leads to things like denying the vote to women until recently.
That was also the main reason why they were also late in Europe to get universal health care, today even the leader of the opposition to that has admitted that he was wrong.
And that is only mentioned to deal with the idea that we would be looking to weaken the federal government to be like them, sometimes solutions some hate do come even under a weak federal government.
Thing is, if we foresee a future in which large swathes of the Southeast are majority Hispanic, they aren’t going to tolerate a mostly Anglo DC telling them how to live.
I don’t think so, as even with gerrymandering Hispanics influence in elections and government will increase in the future.
Incidentally most do want to live by following the culture of the nation:
CNN PRESENTS
Latino in America: Chasing the Dream
Of course the economic downturn has affected all, even Borders books. But the point is that no, once integration comes most Hispanics respect American institutions, law and even culture.
Would conservatives? If abortion were legal in California, and illegal in Arizona, wouldn’t AZ conservatives try to take measures to prevent travel for the purpose of obtaining one? If California had gay marriage, wouldn’t Arizona take measures to deny marriage benefits to couples from CA? Don’t conservatives spend a lot of money in political issues involving other states?
U.S. uniformity of law isn’t a “liberal” or a “conservative” thing. It mostly comes from a distrust of a “patchwork quilt” arrangement of local laws that lead to conflict.
Rubio seems to have a lot of reasons to not support his own bill.
A five mintue video on why it should be added now and not later.
Missing Husband
Don’t confuse the overly vocal “activist” Hispanics with every day working people. They aren’t as caught in the white versus brown paradigm as you might think. Just like any other Americans they want clean neighborhoods, good schools, and nice places to work and shop.
And being “white” - I don’t want anglo D.C. telling me how to live my life. So, I don’t have a problem with their not wanting it either.
Actually I do. Those numbers were inflated without justification. Can you site where the increase in costs were? No? Don’t feel bad. Nether could the two organizations that provided that “study”.