Why is it “rude” ? Foolish, certainly. There’s no situation where it is an advantage to split tens. But not rude. It doesn’t affect anyone else’s hands. If someone wants to throw their money away splitting tens, no skin off my nose.
Ah, so then I’m not advocating any rude behavior. Very good then, especially considering I’m almost certain I said earlier that people who get huffy when they don’t win, or when others don’t play the way they want them to, are “assholes” and “big, fat jerks.” You didn’t read it, but it’s there.
Can you let this go already? I never said their play has any effect on your odds. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. Repeating this is like telling me I’m wearing black pants. I know that already.
What I’m not sure of is why you think just because an action is illogical, that it cannot be rude. A lot of social manners are not rooted in what the most rational thing to do is, and come from making some gesture that you care about how people around you feel. If that’s not important to you, then very well, but don’t be surprised when people think you’re rude.
Edit: People sure did latch on to that splitting tens bit. It was mainly a joke, but the point of that joke was to suggest it is rude to play like a child randomly standing, splitting, or hitting is poor form and is rude.
[QOUTE]The lower the amount at stake, the worse the behavior.
[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of the old saw asking why college departmental meetings are so often so contentious - because there is so little at stake! 
You said people were assholes when they make the wrong play that just happens to work against the favor of the table (and which often will happen to work in favor of the table - but no one ever thanks the person in this scenario).
I guess you can make a case that so long as you never actually speak up and tell the person to their face, and instead just imply it later to people who may be reading your post and who engage in that behavior, then you’re not being rude.
And yet you won’t back off the idea that people playing the “wrong” way is somehow asshole behavior. So there’s clearly something you don’t understand here.
I think we’re having two seperate conversations here and that may be the source of our miscommunication. You’re talking about me intentionally making the “wrong” play in order to piss off idiots (which I can see there being a case for rudeness even though people being offended by their own stupidity amuses me), and I’m talking about your attitude that people are assholes if they don’t play the “right” way and take the dealers’ bust card, etc.
I was more or less commenting that this was a rare situation in which you could take actions that only injure people who are so dumb that they talk themselves into that injury. It does not cause them harm, and the only reason it causes aggravation is because they’re idiots. This idea is satisfying to me and I don’t particularly care if you think this is rude.
What I am still saying though is that your general attitude about how people who split tens, hit when they’re not supposed to, steal the dealers’ bust card, etc are assholes. T
Why?
Bah, go Google search blackjack table etiquette. If you don’t think etiquette is important, then we’re at an impasse.
That wouldn’t really answer my questions or backup the idea that someone is an asshole for splitting tens, taking the dealer’s bust card, etc. Sure, I can google and find other people who hold the idiotic views that people can be blamed for the dealer getting one random card instead of the other, but that doesn’t resolve anything, it just lets me know that your illusions are popular ones. I’m already well aware.
What illusions?
Do you think I think that someone playing foolishly has real effects on my odds? Even though I’ve said I don’t believe that? You somehow know what my “illusions” are, despite what I have actually said? You know what else I don’t think has any effect on my odds? Tipping the dealer when I’m on a winning streak, but I do it anyway, because not to is rude. Why? Did the dealer cheat for me? Does she have an Ace up her sleeve? Is she acting in some way that has caused me to win eight hands in a row? No. And yet, folks, you don’t tip when you’re losing; it’s not even rude if you don’t tip when you’re losing. It’s not like a bartender who you tip for serving you, more or less depending on the quality of their service. You tip when you’re winning, you don’t when you’re losing. That’s just the way blackjack table manners are.
Why are manners the way they are? Fuck if I know. Fuck if I know why I say excuse me if I belch. My burp has no effect on anything, but saying “excuse me” does show some basic (if irrelevant) concern over how people feel, however irrational it may be.
Reread post #18 and #20.
You are saying a guy is an asshole for making the wrong play to take the dealer’s bust card, even though it’s only an illusion that he did something to hurt the table. As many times as he takes the dealer’s bust card, he’s going to take a non-bust card and then give the dealer a bust card from the remaining deck.
In order for this guy to be an asshole, he has to do something that somehow injures someone else, right? What is this guy doing wrong?
This conversation is beyond pointless. You seem to be operating on the premise that behavior cannot be rude or assholish unless it causes someone harm, and so in order for this behavior to rude, I need to point out the harm done. I say you do not have to cause anyone harm to be rude; you can completely disregard the atmosphere, the expectations that everyone will play well, and other people’s feelings to qualify as rude.
It does not one whit of harm to another human beings if I pick my nose or scratch myself inappropriately while speaking to them, and I still say that it would be damn rude.
If a person doesn’t play perfect blackjack, it has no effect on anyone. There is no intent to be rude, there is no harm done, there is no logical reason you can identify it as rude.
The only reason it’s considered rude is EXACTLY BECAUSE most people who gamble are retards. They think, erroneously, that the person making the wrong move is doing it to hurt them. So the social standards a person can be violating here only exist because people are stupid.
Out of curiosity, is someone who hits 12 against a dealer 3 rude? That’s proper basic strategy for a generic scenario. What about if they hit 13 against a dealer 3? Now this action is incorrect. Is that rude?
What if the dealer is hiding a 10 under there, and the next cards up are 10 and 7 in that order? Now if the person hits, they bust, and the dealer gets the 7 to make 20. Is that now rude? What if the order of the next two cards is 7 and then 10? Now the player gets 20, and the dealer busts - should that be praised? Is it now anti-rude?
Yes, because not playing *perfect *blackjack is exactly the same thing as playing in a way that is completely out of line with the expectation that you will make an effort to play a good game.
What’s the difference? Where do you draw the line and why?
You’re also moving the goalposts. Neither the OP nor post #18 (which is what your original post #20 was in response to, and that’s the post I’m directing all of this at) described a situation that was way out of line (as you would view it). I’ve seen this happen with routine and even correct plays - in the examples above, when the next cards are 10 then 7, then the guy on third base is an asshole because OMG YOU TOOK THE DEALER’S BUST CARD and yet when the cards are 7 and 10 no one says anything, even though the guy now, with the very same play, made the dealer bust.
Ha ha ha.
Dude, cut the shit. Nobody is moving any goal posts. What I am saying now, and the only thing I’ve been saying, is that it is rude to play like someone not making any effort to win. Seemingly arbitrary decisions to stand or split, etc, are poor form and rude. You say it cannot be rude if it doesn’t do anyone harm, and I say complete disregard for the environment and expectations is rude, even if there is no material harm. That is where we disagree. There is no “zOMG BUST CARD!” coming out of me. Now you’re asking me to draw up a chart of which specific act is rude and which isn’t, and whether it’s polite to stand on two, or if I should double down when I have 11, but the dealer’s card is a 10, and so on. No.
There’s a difference between making a move that isn’t officially by The Book, and playing like you simply do not give a fuck. I am not going to explain to you the difference.
Funny how hindsight is 20/20.
If you made a risky play and caused the dealer to stay or bust on his card no one would say anything.
Make a risky play and give the dealer the winning hand…
Funny how no one blames anyone else for their actions that effect who gets each card in every stack or even the guy who got to place the shuffle card.
slight hijack/ How many casinos are using continuous shuffle machines these days?
The problem for me is that when I play by “the book” I lose. Horribly. When I make random decisions I at least break even and fairly often win. There is one friend that my husband and I used to go to the casino with who will not play at the same table as I do. He acknowledges that how I play works for me, but it doesn’t work for him and he’s uncomfortable with someone playing the way I do at the same table. In short they’re probably complaining because they’re uncomfortable with your style however unless they’re willing to cover your losses they don’t get to dictate how you play. Since the discussions with my friend my response to others has modified from “how dare you” to “I’m sorry you feel that way but this works for me and I’m sitting here. Please feel free to find another seat if it makes you that uncomfortable”
A very large percentage. Those that don’t use 8 deck shoes, which render any “guess” about the next card moot.
Nope, that’s not what you’re saying.
This is post 18:
This is your immediate reply to that post:
Where is the assholish behavior he describes? Where is the “not making any effort to win” you’re referring to?
Yes, there is. pricciar made the perfectly relevant point that sometimes you end up taking the dealer’s bust card, and just as many times you end up making the dealer have a less favorable card. Your response to that is essentially “sure it may even out, but if you take the bust card you’re an asshole”, is it not? What other way can your statement be logically interpreted?
There was no out-of-line behavior described upthread in regards to people making horrible plays. So I’m trying to get you to define what sort of play makes you an asshole and what doesn’t, and why that’s the case. I’m asking you to define your argument and standards.
Again, moving the goal posts, since there was no indication of any specific scenario in post #18, nor was there any claim previous in the thread about specific examples of people violating some unwritten rule of giving a fuck. You are claiming to be responding to things that weren’t said.
After reading this thread, I’ve decided that everyone playing blackjack at a casino table is hereby expected to wear a blue shirt. This expectation isn’t based on anything rational, and doesn’t affect me in the least, but I expect it nonetheless, and will actively take offense if others don’t comply. If you’re sitting at a blackjack table and you’re not wearing a blue shirt, you’re wrong.
Now, for those taking up the “etiquette” angle, just how many people – and I’m no perfectionist; approximations are welcome – would need to agree with the above sentiment before it became anything other than completely retarded?
Speaking for myself, if someone wants to place requirements upon my behavior that they actually expect me to abide by, I fear I’ll be needing a far more compelling argument than the circular reasoning of informing me that it’s expected. Call me rude if you wish, but of the two groups in question here — people who go out of their way to form self-admittedly baseless expectations about others’ behavior versus people minding their own business while affecting no one but themselves — I know which ones I’d call the assholes.
Piss off. I’m done with you.
It would be more appropriate to say that I’m done with you, actually.