Show us the cite funboy, or shut up. It ain’t on no frontpage.
Oh, for Christ’s sake. It’s the leading article on CNN.com. You know, the big picture of that schmuck Rumsfeld holding his hands up and likely saying, “I caught a terrorist this big…”
they can only do 400 a month? Utter bullshit.
You could, also, read the link in the OP:
I suppose, but that is not the same as the claim that “the 87 billion is being spent on armor and that the factory is churning it out at max capacity, and has been for some time”. Given a claim that specific, I naturally assumed that I would be linked to a story. Perhaps featuring some beleaguered, but patriotic factory worked recounting tales of overtime worked in service of our troops. I hope that you can see that the original claim was a bit misleading.
Okay, funboy, what do you think the manufacturers should be able to produce? Real world numbers, too, not some fantastic “They should make everything perfect forever” claims.
Any cites? Any evidence? You must have worked for a defense contractor before, right? Heavy industry? You’re involved in the procurement cycle?
Of course, it’s much more fun to assume Machiavellian machinations behind the scenes, and Rumsfeld and Bush lighting stogies and gloating about the soldiers they’re deliberately underequipping. Hell, if Bush had done that, I might have been tempted to vote for him.
Oh, I fully agree. Rumsfeld’s quote isn’t as detailed as I’d like. I’d like to have a representative from the manufacturers explaining how production lines are at maximum capacity, and they’re building more factories to try to meet demand. My point (admittedly overly snarky) is that the article was front and center.
Well, I’m just going to boringly stand in the middle on this.
Part of the blame on this lies in the planning. Fast and light is a good way to fight battles, but sucks all to hell when it comes to nation building and prolonged fights. It seems that even since the beginning, those planning this mess have let optimism get the best of them. It’s a lousy way to run a war. The fact that a soldier had to ask where the armor is speaks of how badly this was planned and how poorly it’s being run.
And yeah, what Rumsfeld said was entirely idiotic. Must be what happens when he tries to give a straight answer. He should stick to his normal verbal gymnastics. Makes the press conferences much more fun.
However, what he said doesn’t seem to be the “fuck off” as much as some here are making it out to be. Armor doesn’t grow on trees and the munition makers elves have since retired to Orlando. The armor takes time to produce. It’s coming. They will have armor. Life would be easier if we could pull it out of thin air, but we can’t. It would be easier if we could pull the troops back instantly and things would be fine in Iraq until they come back with the armor, but we can’t.
It may sound terribly cold, but they will have to deal with it until we can get the supplies to them. Ya’ll keep jerking your knees like this your shins will fly off 
Perhaps we should scrounge through our landfills and send the scrap metal over. I bet we have better garbage here than they do in Iraq.
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Anytime you let Joe Snuffy get on a mike in front of a general or high muckety muck he is going to ask questions. Most of them are going to be dumb questions that could have been answered by his platoon sergeant. Someone asked Rumsfeld about a pay problem. I’m sure his chain of command never heard of it. It happens all the time. I remember in Hackworth’s book About Face he talks about an inspection by Eisenhower in Trieste when he complained to the Supreme Allied Commander that they were getting too much Spam.
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For the questions that have been played on TV, probably not. For some of the other questions that should have been brought to the chain of command, probably so.
So with all the industrial might of our country and 87 fucking billion bucks, we can only armor 13 humvees a day? You need me to explain why this is fucked up?
Hire some more friggin welders. Ship the plates to Iraq and let guys over there equip concurrently. There are probably a million things that could be done differently.
What a load of shit.
I’ve been recycling these cans of Diet Mountain Dew, but maybe a care package would be a better idea…
I should organize a collection drive at the office.
Yea, but these are probably Union jobs so that is probably a lot of the problem. I think that we should probably outsource this job, you know, let the free market handle things. It really is the only way.
I understand that, but it still doesn’t answer the question. The question wasn’t “when we will have armer”, the question was “why don’t we have armer now?”. The only two reasonable answers to that question are “Because you don’t need it” and “Because we didn’t think you would need it.”
I have no doubt that the truth is that they didn’t think that the troops would need it. But the whole “you go with the army you have, not the army you wish you had” thing makes it sound more like the other answer.
Apparently, there’s at least one specialist who thinks so.
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Come back with facts. Armored HUMMVs are not armored with steel. They are armored with composite materials that you can’t just weld on. It takes time to manufacture them. It can’t be done in any garage. The after market steel plates are being produced in the field. Not as good as the factory mods but pretty effective.
Just remember, Rumsfeld is one of the Cabinet folks who aren’t getting the boot…
(“You go to war with the Army you have”? Tough talk from someone who’ll be out of Iraq before the week’s over)
Dude, that is fucking brilliant! Think about the branding possibilities. It would be like product placement in movies, only with death! We could have the Soda companies underwrite the war.
It’s been two years now. Yes, there’s a lot of bureaucratic crap in normal DOD procurement procedures, but there are means to short-cycle them that obviously haven’t been used. The fancy form-fitting aftermarket specials aren’t necessary; the improvised steel fabrications that soldiers have been making themselves, or having made stateside by Joe’s Welding and such, are a lot better than the nothing most of them have, and they can be had very quickly.
There is no abatement in the rate of attacks via homemade land mines, it’s actually increasing, and there is realistically nothing a soldier can do to avoid those no matter how courageous he is. Telling him “You just deal with it” is an insulting way to say “I don’t feel like dealing with it myself, just fuck off and quit bothering me.”
And “hppes” the rest will be out in the next four years. That would make this war longer than WW2. Maybe. And with success not at all assured, to say the least.
IIRC they’re actually velcroed on, which makes it about as easy as it gets. Put the steel on until composite replacements are ready. Up manufacture of composite replacements. Don’t give me any bullshit excuses I can punch holes through em no problem
Well, considering we fought over there during the original gulf war, they should have known. I mean, hostility toward Americans isn’t exactly new to the region.
My husband was a combat marine in Vietnam. He sort of tried to defend Rummie (tell 'em to join the armored division!!!) but fercrissakes…it’s not like we don’t have the money to outfit these guys properly.