Sure, just show me the results of a free and fair referendum and I’ll agree with you
The owners of the country did vote for the current representative in Kiev.
Where was the free and fair termination of Yanukovich in February? The termination that set the Crimea stage for their own popular uprising. First things first. Are you disputing the ultimate will of the majority was not served by the referendum in Crimea?
If you can’t move on the populations of the world will move on without you and without all the governments that are wrong on this issue too.
Corrected.
Even if it took 50 pages, at least you’re part way there.
Ftr, it was a coup, paid for and engineered by the US primarily through USAID:
Guess who is the the interim Prime Minister of Ukraine?
In case it wasn’t clear, the above “fuck the EU” from Ms Nuland was in reply to aldiboronti’s thought that “The West rushed in like fools…”.
Ukranians are currently dying at the hands of Ukranians because the US wants Yatseniuk to push east.
Fwiw, a reasonable definition of ‘puppets’ is a situation when the puppet master has little to lose - excect the cash money and/or arms it invested - and the puppets have pretty much everything. Which in my lifetime is a pretty good summation of US Foreign Policy across central and South America, MENA, and chunks of Asia.
Going with your theory that the USA is driving all these problems, which is nuts, I am impressed with my government’s ability to control Ukraine and I am proud of their work. Look at it this way. When Russia manipulates Ukraine, the country breaks into pieces and at least 80 people were killed. When the USA manipulates Ukraine, the country doesn’t break up and less than 10 people have died. I think we’re 8:1 better imperialists.
Cite? You’ve provided one that makes absolutely no reference to your grave accusations.
From The Bay of Pigs through Iran-Contra to WMD in Iraq, and several million innocent deaths in several dozen countries along the way. Beyond that do your own reading - there’s not exactly a shortage of ex-CIA staff who want to clear thier conscious via Amazon.
/end of silly bollocks games
I think you mean “conscience”.
Also: because the USA attempted a coup back in 1961, the Ukrainian uprising is a coup? Come on mate, you can do better than this
The “but Mommy, he hit me first” argument was addressed earlier in this thread. Not going to repeat it again. I am not cheerleading anyone. I’m not particularly pleased with how Ukrainian democracy has played out since the break-up of the USSR, and I’m not at all pleased with Russia trying to stoke the flames of separatism. Russia is acting as a destabilizing force, and so is the bad actor here. As much as we may disagree with the internal politics of Ukraine, they are still the internal politics, which are none of our business.
Look, there isn’t a debate to be had on this point.
If people want cites they really aren’t getting the very basics, and having looked at this thread periodically, that’s also pretty clear.
In 50 pages, there isn’t enough insight in this thread to inform a high school debating society evening. But hey, if people want to yelp cite at stuff that would embarrass first year undergrads., at least here they’re in company.
I don’t disagree the USA has interfered with the internal politics of dozens of countries. Weaker countries will always have their politics manipulated by stronger countries. Since Ukraine is weak and Russia is interfering with it then we should interfere as well and get as much from it as we can. God willing, we will succeed and get the whole thing.
Well, this is disturbing.
Great satirical piece:
I’m Confused, Can Anyone Help Me?
And boy! Do a lot of posters appear to need help here.
This. If the annexation was the result of a open and transparent democratic process then your arguments would have merit, but no matter how much you and Russia’s other cheerleader’s protest otherwise that was not the case. It is clear to anyone who hasn’t been brainwashed into drinking the Russian cool-aid that it was orchistrated by Russia from the start. And I don’t want to hear the argument “the USA has done the same thing.” This thread is not about Iraq or Bay of Pigs or anthing else the USA has done, so you can shove that red herring right up where the sun doesn’t shine. And Crimea’s history is actually quite a bit more complicated than you seem to acknowledge. Keep in mind that ethnic Russians didn’t make up a majority of Crimea’s population until the mid 20th century, and make up only a slight majority now (58% as of 2001.) Also, a majority of Crimeans voted in favor of Ukrainian independence in 1991.
Ninja’d by Malthus.
At least today’s meeting went much better than expected. It wouldn’t be the first time that both sides reach an agreement just to shit on it just hours later, but let’s hope that doesn’t happen this time.
Is that your response to the neo Nazi like pamphlet or are you just blathering without reading along?
It appears the Jewish registration pamplets aren’t really from the governments in those areas…