Was just watching a CNN report where they are saying that there are indications that the plane came apart at altitude (large chunks of the plane basically rained down in the area…grim as this is, it should tell some of the 9/11 Truther types exactly what it looks like when a commercial plane is hit by military weapons when it’s flying at altitude, as opposed to slamming into the ground intact at high speeds).
Its long range/altitude on works really well, if it gets the hand off from a regional air defense center. Otherwise, its normally used against helicopters and low altitude airplanes.
I posted in the other thread about what I was thinking in regards to this.
I am not doubting what you are saying, just that they normally dont keep their radars hot, so I think someone else is involved.
Declan
About the only thing you can be sure of is whoever gets nailed for it didn’t do it.
Well, that’s about the most useless thing you can say.
Maybe more Russian troops “got lost” while “patrolling the border”. Or, as the insurgents’ leader has claimed (with a straight face) - maybe those soldiers on active duty are on vacation and decided to take the vacation helping out the insurgents instead of going to the beach.
Putin is a thug. Europe is a weakling coward. Not a good combination.
As we’ve recently seen in Iraq, there’s a difference between having weapons and being willing to use them.
So…now what? Here is the CNN version of the same thing. BTW, hard as it is to believe, but at least one rebel leader actually DID say that the Russian troops in the Ukraine (over a thousand according to CNN) are ‘on vacation’. Hard to credit that anyone would be stupid enough to buy that line, or why anyone would be stupid enough to even say that at this point.
Seems Putin is going for the “boiling frog” approach.
Seems to be working pretty well so far.
I was willing to give Putin the benefit of the doubt at first, but it’s getting absurdly obvious that he’s masterminding this slow-motion invasion. Nobody is trying to stop him, however (including the Ukrainians themselves) so frankly I’m starting to wonder if Putin has figured out how to wage a land war in the 21st Century.
Not so sure about that. He grabbed the Crimea without trouble, but his latest adventure isn’t going, it would appear, the way he planned - I’m pretty sure he wasn’t planning on his ‘seperatists’ slowly losing, thus making his direct intervention more and more obvious to prop them up.
Well, there is such thing as a working vacation . . .
Still, nobody has the will to actually send troops in to stop him. Obama sure as shit won’t, and it’s hard to imagine who, outside of maybe Poland, would be willing to chip in any forces. I’m wondering if he figured out that a gradual escalation of the conflict stands much less chance of generating a big response than a large Blitzkreig-type invasion.
Compare this to the ISIS problem in Iraq/Syria. They made huge gains quickly, but now the Western nations are getting ready to bomb them back to the Stone Age. A year from noww, the Islamic Caliph (or whatever his title is) is going to be hiding in a basement somewhere, if he isn’t dead. but a year from now, Putin will be fine, and probably touring Crimea.
Maybe, but it’s just being overcautious, IMO. The West wouldn’t do anything even if it was a full scale Blitzkrieg invasion. Oh, they would condemn it and Obama would probably do another stern speech. Same result though. US doesn’t trade enough with Russia to make a difference, and Europe would not do anything detrimental to its economy for Ukraine’s sake. And of course it is obvious that neither Obama nor Europe would entertain even a modicum of a thought for military action.
I suppose it could be argued that the present strategy mutes what limited responses one could expect from the West - for example, more speeches and meaningless sanctions, as opposed to more meaningful sanctions.
Armed intervention is, as you point out, not in the cards.
Except that Europe has imposed ever increasing sanctions. I doubt Europe (or the EU) or the US would react militarily to anything the Russia does in the Ukraine, but I’m not sure that would be our optimal response anyway. We don’t want to get into a direct shooting war with Russian troops verse NATO or US troops, regardless. Economic sanctions are going to hit Russia a hell of a lot harder than you and Diceman seem to think, and I think indirect military aide as well as economic aid to the Ukraine in conjunction with those sanctions are the best course for us to take. I agree with Malthus…I think that this has turned into more than Putin thought it would, and the fact that the ‘rebels’ are losing has forced his hand in a way that he did not want it too…and it’s going to end up costing Russia in the long run.
According to Putin and everyone, there are no Russian troops in the Ukraine. We should be free to shoot them at will, so long as we announce having bought his line.
The sanctions are only temporary. There’s too much money at stake for them not to be.
Putin today says: “Thank God, I think no one is thinking of unleashing a large-scale conflict with Russia. I want to remind you that Russia is one of the leading nuclear powers…It’s best not to mess with us.” (on Ukraine)
Translation: I’m using our nuclear capabilities as a threat against anyone who interferes with what I want to do
Reptilian. For a leading power’s president to even mention that in this day and age…
Roll back the clock and re-imagine Russia without him and his power-hungry maneuvering–would they have been any worse off? No. Get rid of Putin.
Of course he will use the sanctions, and what is a largely state-owned media system in Russia, and sentiments exchanged as a result of trolling fomenters like just upthread, etc., to try to unify the Russian people behind his agenda–poor Russia, unfairly persecuted by the West, etc.–when he has engineered most of the whole series of events. The man is dangerous to the world and his own country. Get rid of him. Preferably by the Russian people themselves.