Valid point about the right wing conservatives. I’m pretty sure the Crimean takeover was accompanied by professional paramilitary troops with no insignia and speaking flawless Russian.
His Red Line in Syria was the use of chemical weapons by the government.
Is there something constructive you have to add to the OP and the discussion.
Or what is your point… John Mace has been shown to be wrong…once again. That was the intent.
What do you think he disagree with me on Crimea about? Explain what you see?
If you must make false assertions about what I ‘decided’ it shows weakness in your argument.
It matters not what **I think **about Crimean Independence… it was not an issue up until now… it is entirely up to the resident’s there and they should work something out with the Tatars. I am beginning to see slanted reporting from western journalists that needs to be reviewed and carefully scrutinized. One thing I see emerging because of reporting on all fronts and in conversations with relatives in Russia yesterday, is that 'right wrong or indifferent, the Russian Speaking Ukrainians who listen to Russian TV News and Russians at home (one relative is a doctor/top administrator and the other is a police officer) and another relative living in Germany who watches Russian and German TV news are entirely and firmly convinced that the new leadership there by riot not election are fascists on a scale not seen since the Nazi’s were the threat to that part of the world.
It is exaggerated I know… but I am observing the reality in Crimea that these people are motivated or can be motivated to act very much contrary to how the west wants them to act. The west has lost a major PR effort in selling this Kiev revolution as a good thing to the most important ‘strategic’ people who matter.
You can’t blame all this on Putin’s mad dog quest to restore the Soviet Union to its once great vast empire. My father in law was fiercely anti-Putin until now. He’s doing the Russian version of ‘given em hell Harry’ right now and by 'em I mean the west and the fascists they are supporting and propping up in Ukraine. They are entirely of the impression in Russia that Crimea is now an autonomous state and it was accomplished without firing a shot. If the fascists don’t like it too bad. \\
Not saying they are right about the fascists but that emotional appeal which is working makes it believable for me that Crimea will be independent, And it would not be for fear of Russia… it is for fear of fascism and Ukrainian anti-Russian nationalism and the mess the West has help make in Kiev and all the other anti-Russian areas.
There was something being passed that speaking Russian in Ukraine was banned. That inflamed a lot of this. The armed guards that took over the Crimean Legislature and airports and bases were in part according to many reports the former security forces that confronted the rioters in Kiev… They made it to Crimea where they were welcomed … and were very early making the moves for Crimean independence. .
Sketchy yet but there was to be an open debate in the Crimean Legislature when Tatars showed up to showed there disapproval… Two pro-Russian people were killed and the debate was canceled… Later this inflamed more passion toward independence.
I do intend to witness events as they unfold and listen to all sides in this conflict. I refuse to have my mind strapped to the westernized news media’s version as some kind of final verdict on all this. It took a year for the West to quietly publish the truth about Sakaashvilli launching dozens of Grad Rockets on homes and business where women and children and Russian peacekeepers were preparing to retire for the night.
I have stated my dislike of Putin and why, but it was on the other Ukraine thread. So I don’t fault you for not knowing that. But you should not make assumptions that you cannot back up.
How many Russian Soldiers have you confirmed in Crimea right now and what specifically are they doing off the bases? I need to know what number you are going by and what presence or direct threat they have made on the 1.7 million population.
If they don’t like it, they can go to Russia.
Oh come on - someone had to say it.
Governments in general and Tory governments in particular - moral up to the point it might actually cost them money and not an inch further.
Apparently estate agents in Kensington and Mayfair are screaming their heads off about the potential loss of trade from the Russian oligarchs, currently the big-money spenders in that neck of the woods.
Certainly “disinformation” was involved, but I doubt that one was the West’s doing.
Short answer: the EU will kiss Putin’s rear, Obama will huff and puff and flounce a bit and Kerry will continue to behave like a cock.
Ha! This just arrived: ‘US and Europe on brink of passive-aggressive letter to Putin’
It appears that Putin is starting to walk things back, somewhat. Various news reports say that he’s recalled the military exercises on Ukrainian borders and is pretending like the Russian troops deployed to Crimea are not really there.
I guess he’s re-evaluating his options in response to the the world’s reaction.
He’s pretending that they’re not Russian troops, which is slightly different.
That’s quite a common tactic: send special forces to a foreign country but don’t let them wear any national emblems. That way you have a presence in the area, but if they get into trouble you can deny having anything to do with it. If I recall correctly, the squad that was sent to Pakistan to kill Obama Bin-Laden was a similar ‘undercover’ force.
Also, I agree that Putin will have to back down to some extent. The question is how far we can make him back down… that depends on European and American diplomats
Or he’s just messing with the rest of the world to see what he can get away with. It’s a ballsy strategy but then Putin is a ballsy guy, and the long-term downsides are relatively mild from Russia’s perspective compared to the potential gains.
Oh, for sure. He’s not done with Crimea yet. He’s just reconsidering the scope and strategy as he continues probing the extent of the west’s commitment to their rhetoric.
The Ukrainians say 16,000 Russian troops invaded - Putin says zero. Very interesting.
You asked for a cite and I duly produced one, which you are hand-waving away what I produced as “nothing”. Which hardly strikes me as justified.
Don’t be so coy. To contradict the site I produced of course.
From what I’ve read and from what I’ve personally heard from people who live in the country whom I know.
I think you are arguing dishonestly here. It is clear from your posts you have an opinion. Why not just come out and say what it is?
I don’t know for sure, but I have the ability to make reasonable assumptions based on what I do know. Again, I’m talking about Eastern Ukraine and not Crimea.
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I do know that actual human beings who actually live in the country at issue are actually saying that the alleged public pressure is based on a small and unrepresentative group. I have provided a cite for that. You can hand-wave that away all you like, but it is in fact evidence.
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I do know for sure - and you agree - that there is a massive Russian propaganda effort to blow this public pressure out of proportion.
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We now know as a fact that Russians are being “bussed in” to bolster the protests.
Here’s another cite. I have no doubt you will dismiss it out of hand, as you did the last, but what the hell.
In short, I have good reasons to reasonably conclude that these are “potemkin demonstrations” orchestrated from Moscow. Certainly, there is some home-grown pro-Moscow sentiment, but the notion that these demonstrations represent an authentic expression of popular will is risable.
They both have cause to exagerate the numbers. 
That would be nice but most of them are ignoring the fact that they’re even starting this week. Luckily so is Putin so there’s that.
This is the unelected who overthrew the elected, isn’t it?
An overthrow of democracy engineered and funded by the US?
reports the 50th 55th 147th Missile Air Defense Regiments joined independant Crimean forces today
It seems to me that Ukraine outwitted Russia.
I think Putin was expecting the chaos of the change in power to cause some Ukranian military to fire upon the Russian soldiers and give a pretext to fire back.
The total lack of military response by the Ukraine forces Russia into a neutral position even when invading. Their only choice now is when to leave (which admittedly may be a while from now)