Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond?

You know, beyond your initial threads going agape much like a teen Biever fan over Obama & Co, you are making a lot of sense on this issue. Problem is, the SDMB is not exactly a bastion of common sense if the US happens to be involved. So nothing you post is bound to change the America First crowd.

Trust me, I know from experience – look up my posts if you’d like, leading to the Iraq massacre and you’ll see what I mean.

I just do it for the record. And usually I am correct. Don’t rub noses nor gloat afterwards as again, the record speaks for itself.

When did you become this debate’s umpire?

In that role you ought to know the definition of non-sequitur.

Again I asked a question. I did not make a statement having little or no relevance to what preceded it.

My question had total relevance because I had written this:

“Following the total collapse of law and the illegal overthrow the Executive Branch in Kiev Crimean Leaders seized control of all its own security and announced it was separating from Ukraine.”

The separation is taking place on a historical border. I asked RickJay a question to find out if he was aware of that critical point in my argument.

Think.

I have no confidence in my ability to decode your implicit message.

[QUOTE=NotfooledbyW]
When did you become this debate’s umpire?
[/QUOTE]

I haven’t been, sadly enough. If I WAS the umpire I’d have thrown you out of the game and sent you to the showers by now. Which has nothing to do with me pointing out, once again, how you go off on tangents and are seemingly talking to yourself in many of these threads. But take heart! Red is prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with you despite the rabid American partisans on this board shouting USA! USA! USA! So, buck up little cow poke…you have an ally at last!

In the role of ‘someone who can read’ I can certainly both see and define one, yes.

You asked a question that was a total non-sequitur, yes. Which I pointed out. Yeah, I got all of that. I don’t think YOU did, but then, you never do seem to understand what others write…or, often, what you write either.

Yes, I’m aware of your thoughts on this as well. You feel that the overthrow of the government was ‘illegal’ (despite having the majority of their parliament involved and endorse what happened), thus making anything that either Russia or elements in the Crimea want to do perfectly peachy. You also feel that, because he was deposed, the former president of the Ukraine gets extra legal powers such as the ability to unilaterally invite in a foreign power to basically invade and carve off parts of his former kingdom…er, I mean country.

Which you brought up out of the blue, and basically is just one more example of you trying to hand wave the actions of the Crimea and Russia to justify, ex post facto the land grab. Yeah, got that too.

Plain enough, hardly encrypted.

:::shrug::::

You should have used :::hand wave::: instead. Much more appropriate. Hows it coming on those post numbers where I was doing the Rah! Rah! USA! thingy? Almost ready to spring that on me?

Other than a rant and an indirect ad-hom @ me, WTF is your point?

Ban all those who disagree with The Mighty XT?

So, is that a ‘no’ or another :::hand wave:::?

(My point, of course, is that you claimed I did this, now you are apparently weaseling about it, so just want to make sure we are all on the same page. Tell you what, though, Red…can you show ANY Rah! Rah! USA! USA! USA! type stuff in this thread? I mean, you’ve stated that it’s here, and that you’ve been oppressed by it, so…well, where is it?)

Some facts that may reach some of the most biased American apologists. Though, as always, I doubt it.

WikiLeaks, Ukraine, and NATO

Are the good guys wearing Cowboy hats? Hardly think so. I don’t see any.

Well, I tried. Moving on.

No worries. Read each and everyone of them. Don’t feel like an XT “post vomit” is necessary. You’ve made your stand quite clear.

Enjoy your evening.

Strange how all those countries who were under Soviet domination rushed to join the “bad guys” in cowboy hats.

Um…ok. So, in summary, a French diplomat and an assistant US Sec State (who is now a special assistant in the Middle East) met and discussed (in 2009) a plan to possibly bring the Ukraine into NATO, but that they didn’t want to rush this because it would antagonize Russia (they apparently waited 5 years to spring their nefarious trap), but that NATO would welcome the Ukraine in when and if they ever got around to joining. Ok, I’ll buy that this discussion happened and that the last item under discussion (after they talked mainly about Iran). So what?

Anyway, it goes on to talk (speculatively) about how Georgia was tricked into attacking South Ossetia under the presumption that NATO would come to their aide (I mean, does this even make sense to you, Red? And note, that this is pure speculation on the authors part at this point, the meat of this being the leak where the last item under discussion was…well, pretty weak and obviously an afterthought in the discussion). Oh, and how we forced East Germany into NATO and reneged on our deal with the Soviets (who didn’t exist anymore, having folded their hand)…or something (whoa).

Can you translate what point you think this all makes? I assume it has something to do with a justification for Putin and Russia’s actions in the Crimea and the blockade of Ukrainian facilities and such (and why it’s cool that Russia is ACTUALLY reneging on their own promises and treaty concerning the Ukraine, signed with the US, UK and others in exchange for the Ukraine signing the NNTP…bad move, obviously, on their part, ehe?). And it shows that the US and France…um, talked about some stuff in 2009. I know I’m a USA cheerleader and all, but really…this seems kind of weak to me. What does it tell you, Red? I mean, you obviously thought this was going to demonstrate something…could you elaborate on your drive by link?

So, that would be a ‘no’ then. Well, glad we cleared that up, Red. Have a fabulous evening yourself…and I really mean that.

{*** “non-sequitur.” Dictionary.com Unabridged. Random House, Inc. 14 Mar. 2014. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/non-sequitur&gt;.

*non se·qui·tur noun 1. Logic. an inference or a conclusion that does not follow from the premises. 2. a statement containing an illogical conclusion.

  1. a statement having little or no relevance to what preceded it 2. logic a conclusion that does not follow from the premises. * ***}

My legitimate question was addressed to Rickjay in order to get information in reply. This is supposedly a debate forum. Bit, if some random observer can at anytime come in and interrupt a debate because he/she has an opinion that a relevant question in the debate does not follow in accordance with the debate - then there can be no debate.

Is that your role XT. Stifling open and free debate? If Rickjay can’t answer my question himself then that is his problem and I will keep it in mind.

[QUOTE=NotfooledbyW]
Is that your role XT. Stifling open and free debate? If Rickjay can’t answer my question himself then that is his problem and I will keep it in mind.
[/QUOTE]

I’ve been attributed vast and awesome powers in this thread. I have to admit, I’m a bit bemused at this point where all of this is coming from. However, far be it from me to stifle open and free debate by making my observations and quoting actual posts AND actually making comments that are in the same universe as what the poster wrote. :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh, and my thanks for looking up and posting the definition of non-sequitur. Now we all know what it means. Appreciate that.

As do I. Though if time allows, wipe your star-spangled blinders.

Niters.

Might as well make it short and to the point, since your comprehensive abilities of the quote in question seem to be lacking.

Spin away.

Do you know how many times the topic of the historical border of Crimea has been brought up on this thread before you came in with your inane observation and time wasting comment that asking a question about the historical borders of Crimea is a non-sequitor?
Here’s just one of the many: On 03-07-2014 at 03:11 AM I wrote, “Are we talking about when the internationally recognized borders of Crimea were set? I don’t see where Crimea was given a vote to separate themselves from the Ukraine? The Ukraine government always had constitutional authority over Crimea since the time that Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine. Where did Crimea have a vote to separate from the Ukraine’s sovereignty?”
And the Crimean Border arrangement has been part of this debate going back a couple of weeks. On 03-01-2014 at 12:03 PM Martin Hyde wrote, “I actually think Ukraine probably was untenable with its current borders, the same way Czechoslovakia didn’t really need to be one country but Ukraine obviously was heading for a more troubling divorce. Crimea is very heavily Russian, and **really only became part of Ukraine due to internal border redrawings in the 1950s within the Soviet Empire. **It’s historically part of Russia and is a genuine Russian area similar to Kaliningrad.”