Well, Russians* are more like 17%, not 25% and if Crimea goes over to Russia, that number will obviously be less. But I think Russia needs to do the mending, not Ukraine. Let’s keep in mind which country invaded which. If you’re an ethnic Russian in Ukraine you might want to tell your cousins across the border to stop sending troops in illegally so a visa system is not needed.
*Whatever that even means.
If you want to hijack … I’ll go back to the Egypt thread… and explain why you have made an error going down that path.
In Egypt when Morsi was tossed out, the Constitution was suspended and the revolutionaries that brought down Mubarak were pleased that the military did what they did. Then they voted in a new Constitution.
The real point in Cairo was that the Military was never not really in control of government power in Egypt anyway.
Not so in Kiev. It was a legislative Coup suddenly pouncing upon the violence in the streets and the Lawmakers violated the Constitution to change the direction of the government. The people in Crimea had a similar popular uprising and violated the (Violated) Constitution in order to leave that troublesome mess in Kiev behind. Its done. Kiev lawmakers deserved what they got They should have followed the law in the first place. Since they didn’t they should quit complaining that Crimea was able to leave because of the opportunity that Kiev lawmakers had given them.
Whatever Russia did in Crimea it was during the un-constitutional transfer of power that took place in Kiev in a supposedly democratic nation.
When the News media gets sick of hearing from McCain, Cheney and Condi… telling us all about proper international behavior by major military powers in the world. … then this will all be settled out and forgotten and all in all it it will be seen as not a bad way to have settled a post-Soviet-breakup-mistake when all the tensions have receded.
I kinda doubt those numbers. I’ve only been in Kiev and the eastern part so my experience is skewered, but I’ve never met a person who had Ukrainian as first language. The mending I talked about was the internal Ukrainian mending. They have to go forward as a bilingual bi-ethnic state. That means accepting close ties with Russia.
I trust you can see how that is the same as for instance telling Jews in the USA to inform their brethren in Israel to stop doing bad stuff to the Palestinians. American Jews are not responsible for what Israel does, and Russian speaking Ukrainians are not responsible for Russia’s actions. As far as I know the majority identify as Ukrainians, however if they feel marginalized or vilified they will naturally start to question that. Up till around a month ago I saw a lot of Ukrainian flags and stuff posted by Russian speaking Ukrainians on social media; now almost nothing. I wonder if too much damage has already been done and it is already too late.
If you have other numbers, let’s see them. Your impression is just that-- an impression.
Uhm, no. Israel didn’t invade the US, so your analogy fails big time. Anyway, it’s your idea that a country has to tip-toe around an ethnic group and disregard it’s own sovereignty. When one country invades another, I don’t think it’s odd for the invaded country to be concerned about the going back and forth with the invader.
Absolutely. I don’t really care to convince you of anything. I merely offered my impression.
It doesn’t matter what Israel or Russia has done. A person in another nation is not responsible.
But what you are saying, is that a Russian speaking person born in Dnepropetrovsk should feel obliged to assume some responsibility for at least informing Russia the errors of their ways? That’s major fucked up.
You offered a fact in GD to support your argument. If you’re just going to make stuff up without caring if it’s correct or not then there is no point in debating with you.
Yes it is my idea that a government of a nation which has a history of difficulty integrating its population into a functional entity should try not to do something which will antagonize large parts of the population. But instead focus on actions which can bring the different groups together.
If you feel like the majority insisting on your rights and legal prerogative and bicker about who started is the way forward then good luck with that.
If you call a personal “doubt” which I admit is biased for a "fact " then you weren’t debating anyhow.
Ethnically Russian and “has Russian as a first language” isn’t the same thing.
I am pointing out that Mace’s argument is his opinion not the actual numbers. John Mace wrote what he thinks:
I challenged that he ‘thinks’ wrong to use the term ‘invasion’ with respect to Russian actions in Crimea because he leaves out the reality of events in Kiev that preceded what Crimeans and Russians did.
Nothing that happened in Kiev justified what the Russians did and are doing in Crimea.
I don’t know. Those Tartars were about to rise up any minute and crush the “Russian Speakers”. At 15% of the population, they were a real danger!
They don’t offer any suggestions. (Frankly, I think everyone realises that there isn’t/wasn’t much anyone can do to pressure Russia to pull out of the Crimea.)
If I understand the gist of the radio segments (I don’t always give the radio my full attention, it’s on for background noise) I have heard is that past diplomatic or foreign policy mistakes and/or weaknesses on Obama’s part has led to a weakening of the U.S.'s diplomatic power or leverage, and ultimately allowing Putin to be more able to embark on more aggressive activities.
I don’t share that partisan-right wing conclusion, so please don’t ask me to defend it.
Obama should have looked into Putin’s soul, which he could see from Alaska.
Welp, here we go. Where will it end? Estonia? Lithuania? Poland?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J620140319
Ugh. Russia is just begging for more sanctions. Estonia is a NATO member, and we should honor that agreement if needed.
“More” sanctions? Really?
The current “sanctions” on Russia are like a mosquito bite. Irritating for a second, easily dismissed. Russians laughed them off, and it wasn’t just a pose, they are really laughable. Hell, even calling them “sanctions” is a joke. It is better not to impose any sanctions than to do something that is transparently just a small gesture and call it “sanctions”.
Says You. The undermining of the Constitution for the transfer of power certainly was a trigger that caused the majority to act. Once they moved to secede during a constitutional crisis they asked for Russian help. And they got it.
Here is some Ukraine democracy.
Maidaners are beating the police in Kiev.
Automaidan activists attempt to racket the Lucoil director.
There. I’ve done the work. Nothing “cryptic” about the exchange; other than John’s refusal to respond after asking the original question.