Okay, I’m at work (sshhhh) listening to the classical station and it’s a day of Halloween/spooky-themed music:
Berlioz - “March to the Scaffold” - Symphonie Fantastique
Verdi - “Dies Irae” - Requiem mass
A bunch of other requiem masses
Bach - “Toccata and Fugue in D minor”
Okay so far.
Then the announcer states that the next piece is “Night on the Bare Mountain” by Modest Mussorgsky.
Whaaaa…?
In all my years of hearing this piece, I have never heard “Night on Bald Mountain” referred to as “Bare”, much less “the”. I have a Bachelors and Masters degree in music, worked in the college music library, played the piece, taught the piece in umpteen ‘music appreciation courses’ and always heard it referred to as “Bald”. [And calling the radio station was no help - I was put on hold for 10 minutes.]
My question to any (especially Russian-speaking or music) Dopers is:
What is the original title of the piece in Russian? And what does that accurately translate to? And has anyone else heard it referred to as “Bare” rather than “Bald”?
[I do not normally get my panties into a bunch over trivial stuff, but this question is just more curious than annoying. And mods, if this is the incorrect forum, please feel free to move it.]
Well, I can just about say “Where is my book?” in Russian and that’s about it. But as regards Mussorgsky, I have heard that “bare” is more accurate than “bald”. Though “bald” is the traditional translation, I’ve been hearing “bare” more and more.
There is no “the” in Russian, by the way.
I’m no linguist, and I’m not familiar with the music, but I just want to add my 2¢:
“Bald” is often used to refer to rounded, stone-top or barren (or “bald”) mountains peaks. For example, Georgia’s highest peak is Brasstown Bald. If the music is indeed referring to a bare mountain, then “bald” might be a better translation.
Here’s an interesting take on things: I have a CD that includes the tune–this version by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra with George Pretre conducting. The list of pieces on the back of the CD case calls it “Night on the Bare Mountain,” while the booklet inside the CD calls it “Night on a Bare Mountain.”
But I also know a little bit about Russian, so I’ll try to explain the difference.
Russian does not use articles (“the” and “a”), trusting in the listener or reader to be able to infer whether the speaker or writer means the definite (“the”) or indefinite (“a”) article. However, it doesn’t always provide for a clean translation where context doesn’t readily give clues, as in the title of Mussorgsky’s work–hence, the differences in the title on my CD. And of course, it could be rendered without any article at all, as you are aware, screech-owl.
As for “bare” or “bald,” I have to admit that I’m unfamiliar with the Russian title of the work. However, my Russian-English dictionary shows the root pokri with a host of suffixes indicating various parts of speech, but all pointing to the meaning “cover.” Checking the English word “bare” finds a phrase with a form of pokri in it (s nepokritoi golovoi, literally with no cover for head), or as the dictionary states, “bare-headed,” which we would also know as “bald.” So there is a link between “with no cover,” and “bare” and “bald” in Russian.
Of course, the above is really only a guess. But maybe it will help.
According to http://www.russianculture.ru, the title in Russian is Noch’ na Lisoi gore. I have always understood lisyj to mean ‘bald’, especially since the nominative lisyets means ‘bald man’.
I take issue with Spoon’s conflation of ‘bald’ and ‘bare-headed’; the latter means, at least as I’ve understood it, that the person is not wearing a hat or other sort of covering. For instance, you can go out in the cold bare-headed but still have a full head of hair.
I don’t have my Katzner (an excellent Russian<>English dictionary) beside me, as I am also at work (sssh!) but I’ll check what resources I have at home - both the Katzner and a Russian-only dictionary with definitions in Russian. Perhaps that will help clear things up.
I should also point out that the title in Russian capitalizes ‘Lisoi’ (as I have in the transliteration), which generally means that it’s not just a simple adjective but an appellation. Hence the use of an article at all in translating the title is incorrect.
I work with a nice guy from Ukraine who is a native Russian speaker. He says that “Lysoi” translates as “bald”.
I also work with an equally nice guy originally from Moscow who is away from his desk at the moment (probably out for a smoke). I’ll ask him too when he gets back.
MomCat
–The American filling in the Eastern Block of cubicals in the hallway
You’re absolutely right, and sadly, I thought of that too after I had posted. I was hoping nobody would notice. At any rate, the discovery of the title in Russian–and the use of lisyj–renders my post above null, at least as far as the “bald/bare” question goes.
But if I can try to redeem myself, my Russian-English dictionary (Romanov’s) lists lisyj as “bald;” and for “bald,” it states lisyj.
Ok, Leonid is back from his smoke break and agrees with Gene that the work literally translates as “bald”.
Any other Russian words you’d like translated?? I translate American phrases and idiom for them all the time and they’re happy to return the favor for Russian.
IIRC (and I may be completely mistaken about this) Night on Bald Mountain (or whatever) is supposed to take place on an actual mountain in Germany, locally reputed to be a witches’ trysting-place on Walpurgis Night or something…I couldn’t find any information, but is there a German mountain with this name?
I looked up lysyj in Ozhegov’s Tolkovy slovar’ russkogo iazyka (a monolingual Russian dictionary). The primary meaning of the word it’s derived from, lysina, means ‘place where hair has fallen out and no longer grows’. A secondary meaning is ‘(of mountains) devoid of plant cover or growth’. Lysyj can be used in either context as well. The evidence strongly points to ‘bald’ being the proper translation.
Warning: Please don’t conflate Walpurgis Night with Halloween (as mentioned in the OP). Walpurgis Night is indeed a night of witchery, but it takes place at Beltane (end of April, beginning of May), not Samhain (aka. Halloween).
Thanks matt, but I wasn’t. The music (I think, correct me, someone, if I err) depicts a meeting of witches on Walpurgis night. The radio station played it on Halloween instead because everyone celebrates Halloween but few have even heard of Beltane. I’m not implying the holidays are the same.
A big thank you to everyone who answered this thread. I am SO relieved that I will not have to use Wite-Out on all my CD and album covers (that would have been a chore!).
Mjollnir - Where is that in Georgia?
Spoons - At least I’m not the only one with mis-translated titles. And I didn’t notice til you pointed it out.
Olentzero - Still chuckling about your comment: “So I say we go find the dumb schmucks who decided “Night on the/a Bare Mountain” and get all Mussorgsky on their asses.”
heeheehee - that’s in the running for a new sig.
Mir praxu tvoiemu, bednaia loschad.’ I’m not sure, but I hope that’s not an insult. And how is that pronounced?
momcat - thanks for the offer! I’m sure I will be needing your co-workers’ assistance with a project I have coming up.
scratch1300, there is a piece by Mendelssohn titled “Walpurgisnacht” as well as the 5th movement from Symphonie fantastique “Songe d’une nuit du sabbat” [in my score translated as “Witches’ Sabbath”], both of which I heard as part of the Halloween-themed show, again because they sound “Halloween-ish”.
matt_mcl I am aware of the difference between Beltane and Samhain, but ‘conventional thinking’ and/or ignorance dies hard: for me, it’s like someone talking about “Turkey Buzzards” when they are actually referring to “Turkey Vultures” (a buzzard is really another name for a hawk) - “Doesn’t matter, they’re both birds!”. Annoys the heck out of me, but I can only educate people as best I can.
The tag line ties into the subject line of my last post. Respectively they translate as “You shouldn’t beat a dead horse” and “Rest in peace, poor horse”. The tag line is pronounced as follows:
MEER PRA-khu tva-ye-MU, BYED-na-ya LO-schet
The unaccented vowels shouldn’t be as prounounced as the accented ones. Keep 'em short.
When I was a kid, around 1960, I had seen the Night on Bald Mountain section of Fantasia and loved it. I also remember we had the piece on an old classical 45rpm record also conducted by Stokowski. (BTW, the record was a single, and of course the piece was split between sides.) The title on the record was Night on Bare Mountain, and I remember wondering why.
At any rate, the discovery of the title in Russian–and the use of lisyj–renders my post above null, at least as far as the “bald/bare” question goes.
Mir praxu tvoiemu, bednaia loschad.’