Russian military's use of Lignostone

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Ageranger361

How do you get to that argument from the statement that I made? Can you show the inconsistency in the scriptures that you are referring to?

At this point, I’m not sure who your intended audience is:

1. People who don’t believe in biblical prophesy; or
2. People who believe in biblical prophesy, but are doing it wrong.

[Kiber]

@DWMarch

The argument over which area of modern-day Russia corresponds to biblical Magog is pointless but I will accept it at face value. Magog is Russia, sure. Let’s get that out of the way because there’s another part to this prophecy that needs to be addressed.

Who makes weapons out of wood and epoxy? We’re talking about Russia here, modern day Russia. The OP was supposing that “tanks, trucks, artillery, etc” have been manufactured out of this stuff for the past thirty years and no one knows about it. When the Soviet Union fell and their hardware could be bought for a handful of rubles no one got their hands on a Lignostone tank. The Afghan mujihideen never captured a Lignostone artillery piece. You know why? Because this fabled material is plywood and glue and it’s not suitable for making weapons.

And the weapons made from this stuff are specifically enumerated in the verse as such: “the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears”. That is an unambiguous list of exactly what will be burnt. Are handstaves a metaphor for multiple launch rocket systems? Are bucklers really T-72 main battle tanks made out of plywood? Ah but wait, you say. We’re talking about after the apocalypse. Wood weapons will be all that is left! Except in that scenario we’re forgetting that a T-72 tank is designed to survive a nuclear blast and plywood isn’t!

And what scenario are we looking at here in which Russia brings a bunch of faux military equipment to Israel, Israel defeats it (because it’s made out of plywood!) and then the modern nation of Irsrael decides to burn epoxied plywood as home heating fuel? Do you have any idea how much plywood it would take to heat Israel for seven years straight?

The prophecy still doesn’t make sense even if we throw the apocalypse in there first. If we are postulating a hypothetical World War III we have to remember that Israel is a nuclear nation with many unfriendly neighbors. When the missiles start flying it is likely there will not be an Israel left when all is said and done. There will be a radioactive glass desert throughout the entire region (including “Magog”) and no one will be fighting with swords made out of plywood because they will die from radiation exposure before they can walk from Russia to Israel.

Loath as I am to jump into this I did want to share the following. Namely - I have been told that early versions of American ICBM MIRVs incorporated plywood in their design. It was explained to me as a weight / strength issue although I didn’t get more details. But I was able to find this cite which seems to back up my memory.

Given that - it’s possible that Soviet MIRVs also used some wood for similar reasons.

I make no claims as to any of the religious stuff in this thread. And I’ll leave it to others to interpret Soviet MIRVs as modern day swords and spears. I’m just interested in sharing a bit about the use of wood in a modern (or at least relatively modern) weapon systems.

@some website I can't verify the accuracy of but which matches my memory

The high speed can cause the missile to get very hot as it reenters the atmosphere. Ballistic warheads are protected by heatshields constructed of materials such as pyrolytic graphite, and in early missiles, thick plywood. Plywood approaches the strength per weight of carbon fiber/epoxy composites and chars slowly, protecting the missile.

On preview - this NASA site (Warning: PDF) claims that both China and the Soviets used wood for heatshields on some of their reentry vehicles. So maybe it’s true.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Ageranger361

When we examine the period between March 14, 445 b.c. and April 6, 32 a.d., and correct for leap years, we discover that it is 173,880 days exactly, to the very day!

This would be really impressive if either of those dates had any significance (and we don’t make too much fuss about the assumptions required to pretend that 69 weeks is 173,880 days). But they don’t. And though we won’t, everyone else already has.

[DWMarch]

@Kiber

Loath as I am to jump into this I did want to share the following. Namely - I have been told that early versions of American ICBM MIRVs incorporated plywood in their design. It was explained to me as a weight / strength issue although I didn’t get more details. But I was able to find this cite which seems to back up my memory.

Given that - it’s possible that Soviet MIRVs also used some wood for similar reasons.

I make no claims as to any of the religious stuff in this thread. And I’ll leave it to others to interpret Soviet MIRVs as modern day swords and spears. I’m just interested in sharing a bit about the use of wood in a modern (or at least relatively modern) weapon systems.

On preview - this NASA site (Warning: PDF) claims that both China and the Soviets used wood for heatshields on some of their reentry vehicles. So maybe it’s true.

But again, even if the MIRVs are made out of plywood (a MIRV, for the non-Clancy fans among us, is a Multiple Independently-targetable Reentry Vehicle, in other words a big missile with a bunch of nuclear warheads on it) we’re talking about a scenario here in which enough of them land in Israel that they can be burnt as fuel for seven years. Somehow there are still cities in Israel in this scenario.

[Alessan]

How cold do you think it gets here in Israel that you think we need to burn *anything *for home heating fuel? I mean, seriously. It’s February, and I’m hanging around the house in boxer shorts.We have many problems in the Middle East, but “lack of home heating” isn’t one for you.

In fact, you want me to believe a prophecy? Show me one that gives me air conditioning.

[Lumpy]

For that matter, won’t almost all eschatology be disproven once self-sufficient colonies in space are established, since they would be beyond any cataclysm limited to the Earth?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Alessan

In fact, you want me to believe a prophecy? Show me one that gives me air conditioning.

Alright, but it’s going to be powered with Russian depleted uranium rounds.

[Latro]

@Alessan

How cold do you think it gets here in Israel that you think we need to burn *anything *for home heating fuel?

I don’t think the wood burning refers to fuel for heating but for cooking.

[Rune]

@wolfstu

One wonders if this dates from the Cold War, when the “commies” were the evil opposition of America (In God they Trust)?

I think it’s older than that. The Scytians are supposed to be the children of Magog or Gog, and when the times come there is a specific city in Dagestan through which they’ll pour. Or else this is Islamic belief, I don’t remember. Russian girls are to hot to be evil anyway, so obviously false.

[lazerwerks]

@jmeyers

Lignostone is a composite material of laminated wood and synthetic epoxy. I believe it is manufactured in the Netherlands. There has been a rumor going around among fundamentalist Christians that Russia has been using this stuff to build tanks, trucks, artillery, etc. This rumor has been going around for at least 30 years. This would make it possible for the fulfillment of a prophecy in Ezekiel 39:9 that says (according to these Christians) that after Armageddon, Israel will burn Russian weapons for fuel for seven years. Has anyone any concrete info on Russian use of Lignostone?

It would make sense and I heard this long ago like over 20 years ago. Russia does sell military hardware to rouge nations. ARABS, IRAN, SAUDIA ETC. Now bare in mine that this WWIII is Eziekiel’s 39:9 will be after the antichrist declares himself as god. This is when the great tribulation starts because the scriptures says that GOD will stop them and they will know that he is the LORD. Israel flees to Judea and GOD protects them there. He opens up the earth and swallows the water. What will bring out the antichrist will be chaos and could be part war. The antichrist makes a covenant with many for 7 years and in the middle will break it and declares himself to be god.

[elucidator]

@EvilGhandi

…Assumes that the Netherlands is a major arms supplier to Russia…

Many prominent and perceptive Americans have warned for years about the perfidious Dutch!

[Mangetout]

@lazerwerks

It would make sense and I heard this long ago like over 20 years ago. Russia does sell military hardware to rouge nations. ARABS, IRAN, SAUDIA ETC.

If we had some ham, we’d have some ham and eggs, if we had some eggs.

Or in other words, if it was true, it might make sense, but is is true? Are Russians selling large quantities, specifically of lignostone-based weapons, to middle-eastern countries?

It’s not nearly good enough to link the assertions ‘well, the Russians sell arms’ and “The Russians made some use of Lignostone” into a factoid that supports the assertion being made here.

[Czarcasm]

@lazerwerks

It would make sense and I heard this long ago like over 20 years ago. Russia does sell military hardware to rouge nations. ARABS, IRAN, SAUDIA ETC. Now bare in mine that this WWIII is Eziekiel’s 39:9 will be after the antichrist declares himself as god. This is when the great tribulation starts because the scriptures says that GOD will stop them and they will know that he is the LORD. Israel flees to Judea and GOD protects them there. He opens up the earth and swallows the water. What will bring out the antichrist will be chaos and could be part war. The antichrist makes a covenant with many for 7 years and in the middle will break it and declares himself to be god.

1. It is “Bear in mind”, not “bare in mine”.
2. Saudia is the name of an airline-Saudi Arabia is the name of the country.
3. Arabs are from Saudi Arabia.
4. “Israel flees to Judea”? Israelis may flee, "but I’m pretty sure Israel is going to stay right where it is.

[Czarcasm]

@Lumpy

For that matter, won’t almost all eschatology be disproven once self-sufficient colonies in space are established, since they would be beyond any cataclysm limited to the Earth?

When that happens, religionists will redefine “Earth” to mean “Earthly realm”(anywhere where man resides), and it will suddenly become “obvious” that certain verses are describing places in space.

[ElvisL1ves]

The Mythbusters tried making a cannon out of a log. It, um, didn’t work.

[Pork_Rind]

@ElvisL1ves

The Mythbusters tried making a cannon out of a log. It, um, didn’t work.

I have it on good authority that for a one-time use, an alligator can make for an acceptable cannon substitute. Do alligators burn?

[XT]

@ElvisL1ves

The Mythbusters tried making a cannon out of a log. It, um, didn’t work.

Actually, it did work. I don’t think, however, that using a laminated wood would work very well for modern armored vehicles being hit by modern anti-tank rounds.