As I said, I grew up in USSR. So yes, that was the “Soviet understanding”. And yours seems to be the “American ignorance”.
I think it’s “Tatars”…although there are some colorful costumes over there…or is that tartans?
Anyway, my confusion is not over whether some of the vote is faked but whether or not the majority of Crimeans agree with the decision.
I get the sense from reporters on the ground that the majority in Crimea do want to be annexed by Russia, and that the majority of Crimeans would self-determine to join Russia.
So I’m just trying to figure out the outrage here. I have no skin whatsover in this game; I just literally do not understand the hoopla over it.
Is there a sense the Crimean majority is being bullied by the Russians into casting a vote which is against their will? As to the charge that some boycotted the vote, all I can say is that that’s a stupid thing to do, and if you do it you don’t get to then complain.
When the ballot boxes are transparent and they post pictures on the wall of minorities suspected of voting nay, and there are Cossacks armed with whips to remind people how they really want to vote and journalists who try to see what’s going on get beaten up and their cameras smashed um…
Apparently, actual statistics (as opposed to ‘some guys spouting off to whatever media is allowed in by Russia’) show that, immediately pre-invasion, some 40% of the Crimean population supported joining mother Russia (meaning 60% did not).
Somehow, miraculously, that 40% increased to 97% under the stimulus of Russian guns. Gee, I wonder why? 
If the OP is asking why “we” as in the US should care:
[ol]
[li]The US sold Eastern Europe on the whole NATO expansion pipe dream - Now that Russia is deciding to expand its “strategic depth” they are placing us, being the linchpin of NATO, into a “put up or shut up position.” If they move against a NATO member, we have to act or risk the whole treaty collapsing.[/li][li]Russia moving into Ukraine destabilizes Russia - Despite all the hype about its military, Russia is a social and economic basket case. Its policies in Ukraine could provoke a conflict which could easily spread back into Russia and cause it no end of troubles. That Putin can’t see that for himself ( or doesn’t want to) demonstrates how dangerous of a leader that he really is.[/li][/ol]
If by “we”, the OP means the West, then:
[ol]
[li]If Ukraine collapses, refugees will flood into the rest of Europe, looking for security and work. No nation wants large number of refugees crossing their borders, packing their cities or camping out in their wooded areas.[/li][li]A Ukranian/Russian conflict could easily spread into a regional war - That means problems all across Europe, not the US. The EU will have to do something and history has shown that “doing something” isn’t one of their strengths.[/li][li]**Russia’s gas pipelines to Western Europe cross Ukraine **- If Russia invades Ukraine even further, there’s not much stopping “interested parties” from destroying those pipelines. The pipelines supply Western Europe with gas and their being knocked out (repeatedly) will cause the EU no end of problems.[/li][/ol]
Frankly, this whole situation is a crap sandwich and every day is another nasty bite.
My Russian friend sitting right next to me says you are either not who you are pretending to be, or are simply being disingenuous.
Where/when did your Russian friend grow up?
Is that “Russian friend” kinda like a “Canadian girlfriend”?
I think it’s the “RT” friend.
yeah, funny
No this is actually someone who grew up under Communism in Russia. Not that you would have any way of knowing that, just like I have no idea if you are actually from the Soviet Union, but I do doubt it given your statements.
It sounds like you are confusing some anti-communist rhetoric among ukranians with what ukrainians actually thought about their nationality/ethnicity. I know several people from former USSR (some from Ukraine, some from Russia)–none of them equated USSR with Russia. But what I am going to do for you is send an email to a couple of older folks and see what they have to say. But I’m pretty sure they are going to say the same thing–the idea that people from non-Russian republics of USSR thought Russia and USSR were the same thing is an absurdity that only some uneducated Americans think.
It was all Russia/USSR, just various “flavors” of it. When you traveled, there were no borders, and no real indication that you were in a different republic except for an “exotic” phrase written here and there, some weird-type newspapers sold alongside the Russian ones and, in some republics (not Ukraine or Belarus’ but something like Georgia or Uzbekistan) the accented Russian from some people. Not unless you went to the boonies where people still spoke the “native” language. Inside USSR, if you asked someone where he was from, he’d say “I’m from Kiev”, “I’m from Tbilisi” - not “I’m from Ukraine” or “I’m from Georgia”. I do have to say that the Baltic republics were different - but then they were under Soviet regime for much shorter period than the others.
Udmurts had an “autonomous republic”. So did Yakuts. So did Byelorussians. Officially there was supposed to be a difference, but in practice, and in the way of thinking, all were part of Russia. All were controlled from Moscow, and Moscow’s say was final in all matters.
The division into the republics was considered purely a formalism, an administrative thing. There was no feeling whatsoever, neither by people in RSFSR or by people in the republics (again, Baltics a special case) that they lived in any “separate country”. And yes, if you asked someone from Kiev or Minsk or Baku who was traveling outside of USSR where he was from, he may have said “Soviet Union” or he may have said “Russia”. The two were completely interchangeable. No matter what your “Russian friend” is telling you.
But, Ukraine is not a NATO member.
I have only ever met one person who grew up in the USSR. He came here in the mid-eighties. He is adamant that he is from Ukraine. This might be because he defected and has never accepted the Soviets as masters or as the controlling powers, a thumbing of the nose, so to speak. He was never shy about pointing out that he was not Russian.
Oh, so did Russia end up with the permanent seat on the UN Security Council and the perceived right to keep all the nukes by picking straws?
Ukrainian Cold War joke :
“Papa, papa, the Moskali have gone to outerspace !”
“What, all of them ?”
“No, just one”
“Then why are you rejoicing ?”
They didn’t live *in *Russia, they lived *under *Russia.
I suspect in a few years if it stays out of Russian control it will be, as will most of the rest of Eastern Europe. A lot of course depends on the willingness of the West to take on the responsibility.
responsibility?
NATO and Ukraine have been working towards integration since 2007 i.e. seven years.
They’ve had leaders who like to play the East & West off each other while stealing billions from the people hoping to get out before the shit hit the fan. Which it has.
It looks to me there was a popular revolution in Kiev.