Sad and pathetic, Russian lawmakers want more honor of Stalin

Fair enough, it is closer to 51 million murdered, with 20 million dead in WW2 (his ineptitude at military leadership and liquidation of military leaders helped create such a huge number of dead). That was out of a population of 140-170 million when Stalin came to power. Plus he was supposedly considering another multi-million holocaust and an all out war with the allies, so within 30 years of leadership half the original population was dead, and arguably another 30-40 million would’ve died in the next 10 years had he stayed in power.

Read the book Stalin’s Last Crime by Jonathan Brent and Vladimir Naumov. It’s a look at the Doctor’s Plot in which Jewish doctors were arrested and charged, but subsequently released after Papa Joe’s death. Enlightening reading.

And if you want to hate Lenin, read And Now My Soul Is Hardened by Alan M. Ball. (Note, the whole text is available online through that link.) It’s a monograph about the problem of homeless children living in post WWI Soviet Russia. It also discusses the famine of 1919-1921 and War Communism. It’s not difficult to read and understand, but it is depressing as hell to read.

Robin

No.

That’s Lenin.

I say his burial is secret.
You say public.
If it is public, it is a matter of public record.
Cite?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Stalin

Not even old Josef used biowarfare to kill millions.

OK, I fell for an Urban Legend.

But I’m right about one thing: Joseph Stalin’s grave was a Communist Plot. :wink: :smiley:

Well, yeah, it’s ironic as hell. But it’s something you see a lot in history. People are willing, and even eager to let their rights be trampled if they have faith in some positive future.

There certainly was a distinction between Columbuas and Vespucci on one hand and Stalin on the other. Columbus and Vespucci lived in a time and place where making war on people (including such oddities as raids and mass arson) was accepted and not considered particularly out of the ordinary. Stalin was considered a mortal fiend in his own day and would easily qualify in any place and time.

Please show me where that link indicates deliberate use of biowarfare. I’ve yet to see any confirmed case of it; all records to the contrary are based on ignorance rather than malice. People simply didn’t know what disease was, so using it deliberately was confined to things like tossing ead bodies into fortifications with catapults.

Malice aforethought, if not evident deed. In any case, I myself did not specify deliberate use. That millions died so is atrocity enough, as was the celebration of those deaths as “God smiting the heathens”.

Well, that millions died from disease was certainly tragic, but I wouldn’t call it an atrocity comparable to Stalin, because, with a few notable exceptions, like that or Lord Amherst, it wasn’t deliberate. The Black Death in Europe was also horrible, but I’m not going to say that the captain of the Genoese merchantman who brought the disease to Europe was as bad as Stalin either.

I suppose not, but Vespucci’s name is oddly absent from that account, and I don’t see any indication that the “biowarfare” effect is due to anything more than evolution at work, with the natives lacking the necessary resistance.

So, it’s one of those cases of accidental (bio)warfare?

Why do you hate Amerigo?

(I just like saying that)

Listen to this…

http://www.americanprogress.org/atf/cf/{E9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6FF2E06E03}/WP03.MP3

http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=652