It depends on whether you take a textualist approach to the bet or view it as a living document.
The “charities” in question are charities only in the most legalistic of readings. As such, I see no reason to read the “impeach” clause in anything but a legalistic meaning.
Ahh, peace be with you, Kwai Chang Caine.
It’s perfectly clear that Okrahoma drew a distinction between “impeached” and “impeached and removed from office”:
Given that distinction he drew less than two days after he agreed to the bet terms (“Bets off if he’s impeached/killed/etc.”), it’s pretty rich for him to try to collect on it.
Ha, but still, Sage Rat had a *very close *shave. If the House of Representatives had just voted 3.5 weeks later to impeach Trump, the bet would have been lost. That’s like betting on Trump being impeached by Day-100 and the vote taking place on Day-99…
He did have a close shave. The bad faith involved in declaring Family Research Council a “charity” based on their 501(c)(3) status and not on actual charitable works is pretty damned offputting, and makes me glad I don’t place bets, because no way in hell would I honor that.
Does it matter when the articles are transmitted to the Senate? does that signify “impeached” more than the original two articles having been approved?
I don’t see the relevance. Nixon was neither impeached nor removed from office - he resigned, which is what the bet was about. And it’s not what Okrahoma thinks makes a difference, but what Sage Rat thinks makes a difference.
Emphasis added.
Gambling debts used to be referred to as “debts of honor”. My interpretation of that was that they were debts that had no penalty for reneging, and relied entirely on the honor of both participants. If the loser of the bet decided after the fact not to pay up, well, so much for honor, at least on one side.
To repeat, I do not think that is what is going on here with Sage Rat and Okrahoma. It is not a question of honor, on either side, but a lack of clarity on the terms of the bet. Whether or not “impeached” means just impeached or “impeached and removed from office” is a different question from “you get to pick the charity, except if I don’t like it”.
I am beginning to understand why bets are verboten in GD and P&E.
Regards,
Shodan
It’s about what they both thought. Okrahoma is not acting honorably to try to collect on a wager when he’s been so careful to distinguish between “impeached” as a colloquial phrase and “impeached and removed from office.”
I probably shouldn’t have quoted the Nixon bit–that bit was off-point in the original thread, and I quoted it to bridge the quotes from Okrahoma. The important bit is Okrahoma’s twice-used “impeached and removed from office” instead of just “impeached” to describe what would be a singular event in history. He knew the difference and used the terms technically.
Charities are organizations set up to help those in need, typically the poor or sick or downtrodden. World Vision or the Humane Society or March of Dimes or Compassion International or even the freaking Salvation Army are charities who, however problematic, engage in that mission.
Freedom Watch? Family Research Council? Trump’s campaign? Oh hell no. None of these are set up to give help to the poor, sick, or downtrodden. The former two are financially structured under IRS rules for charities, but they don’t meet the common definitions for charities. They only meet the most legalistic definition of charity.
And if Okrahoma is gonna sneak them in under a legalistic technicality, I absolutely think Sage Rat should refuse on a different legalistic technicality.
I don’t think you get to rule on what is and what is not a charity. Your definition is much too narrow. It excluded green groups, zoos, SETI & museums for an examples. But a charity to me is whatever the IRS decides is a charity. Even if their mission is something I disagree with.
But it shouldn’t matter, Sage Rat’s agreement was unless impeached and Trump was impeached.
Ha! This is the best post of the thread.
And, I think, ultimately correct. What was the meeting of the minds here? Was it on ‘impeached’ as the original wording was or was it being removed from office after impeachment? Since the bet revolved around resigns, it makes that hairy. I think it can be argued either way.
As an uninterested 3rd party observer, I’d say that Sage Rat’s exclusion seemed to indicate that the bet was off if Trump wasn’t able to resign, e.g. by being dead or something. Since Trump is very much alive and still in office, I’d hand this one to Okrahoma.
While I can’t put words into Sage Rat’s mouth, he was not the one to bring up resignation – it was jtur88:
Sage Rat agreed with that post, and while he agreed with the likelihood of resignation and not necessarily jtur88’s reasoning, it’s worth pointing out that jtur88’s reasoning has not borne out. That is, the novelty has not worn off for Trump.
Bricker, welcome back. I hope you stick around.
If the bet is deemed valid, donating to the Family Research Council or Freedom Watch (or Trump’s campaign, for that matter) is a lot like donating to the American Nazi Party or some other extremist partisan threat to democracy. The contribution should be made to a genuinely constructive centrist organization like the American Civil Liberties Union (which has taken positions on both sides of the political spectrum) or someplace like the Brookings Institution. Or to a medical research facility, like a childrens’ cancer hospital.
Yeah, when celebrities play Jeopardy and their winnings “go to the charity of their choice”, the assumption is that it’s a humanitarian actually-helping-people charity.
NOT a political hack group (hacking for either side).
And Bricker, I once called you “our resident smart conservative”…
And it looks like you’re even smarter than I’d thought.
jk, drop in whenever you can!
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