I work 3 days a week. It’s the right balance for me. Any less and I feel like I’m not contributing enough financially. Any more and I get very, very stressed because the laundry doesn’t do itself.
I think that if staying at home is important to you and your family, then make the necessary sacrifices to make it work. If work is important to you, then make sure that you have sufficient energy at the end of the day to devote to your children and spouse. Otherwise what would be the point?
You are right…it’s not actually contradictory at all. I was just sitting down with my husband to completely rework our budget because of the additional child in daycare. It’s cutting into our available funds quite a bit. If we were in the situation where I absolutely had to work to make ends meet, I don’t know what we would do. Well, actually, I do…we wouldn’t have had the second baby, because we don’t really have any childcare options.
I appreciate this sentiment, but it is a message of value to workaholics, usually in middle class or better circumstances.
People who wind up raising kids in poverty do wish they had been able to provide better for their kids. In the absence of a lottery win/Prince Charming/ fairy godmother, that means working harder. And the statistics on elderly women in real poverty are sobering. The women who are elderly today had limited options. But who’s to say the current generation’s fate will be better if we don’t make responsible choices?
I’m not particularly critical of women who choose to stay home with kids. Really. A lot of the Dopers above seem to have thought out their decisions pretty well. But willful ignorance of the economics doesn’t win any points from me. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who bought houses with creative mortgages, either. At some point being an adult has to mean something. You think through the consequences because you know you’ll have to take responsibility for them.
Or you’d downsize. People have twins who didn’t plan on having them - they cope somehow. They downsize their life, one parent works two jobs, or they work separate shifts to avoid childcare. Or all of the above.
Or they find cheap and inadequate childcare. Like their seven year old watching the baby.
This is a difficult subject. I’ve been a SAHM and I’ve been a working Mom (never FT, though). This got really long–sorry!
When I was a SAHM, I thought at first that this was going to be great! I had two kids, and I had been working so PT as to be not working, so I quit. Finally, I thought–all that time to do the stuff I’ve always wanted to do. Ha! I did have SOME time–but not the way I thought I would. I ended up, between music lessons, sports, church stuff etc with these funny little pockets of time–20 minutes here, 10 minutes there. I probably should have taken up knitting-at least that would have been productive.
I am convinced that my older two did benefit mightily from me being home full time, though. I could (and did) control their TV and computer time etc and was more involved in their schoolwork. Then, 6 weeks after we had #3 child, my husband came home and told me he had quit his job. Surprise! After a year of this(he was part of the dotcom bust)–I went back to work PT. I have always insisted on PT with the kids at home because of the structure of my marriage–I am the caregiver to the kids. My husband does contribute, but in the minority: he has no interest in school nights or taking them in for their checkups etc. He does things like drop them off at school (or did before our oldest could drive). I don’t have a problem with this arrangement (now, but for years it was a source of contention), but again, I will only work PT because I know what needs to be done and how much help I can expect… (and yes, this is a luxury to an extent).
When I worked outside the home (as I am now, but in a different job), I was a staff nurse, working 2 12 hour shifts a week–and the days of the week varied according to the unit’s needs. Sounds easy enough–only 2 days out of the week. But those days I left the house at 0615 and didn’t get home until 830 pm. This with middle school, elementary school and toddler children at home. The hours were horrendous for having kids. I did it for the health insurance for 6 years. It was incredibly hard to find a sitter who would take the little one for 11 hours (my husband dropped off and picked up), and who could take him for the moving targets that were my scheduled days.
I was lucky enough to find a good sitter who could drive my littlest one to preschool etc. I paid her 1/3 of my hourly wage–for one child. For the other two-I had a neighborhood HS girl come in (she was home schooled) to be there after school-and I paid her 1/3 for the two kids. So, I paid two sitters. It was insane–but we needed the health insurance. When I think of the scheduling nightmares, even now I blench in retrospect. I also do resent all the things I missed–the band concerts, the soccer games, the holidays…
I know a SAHD who did a terrific job. He started substitute teaching when his kids got into grade school; he went back to school to get his bachelor’s and now is a 4th grade teacher FT.
Bottom line for me: we as a society handle kids and family needs very poorly. I have no real answers, but I hope it gets easier for future parents.
You shouldn’t feel silly. It’s not an easy decision by any means. It’s something I’m really struggling with right now. I don’t have children yet, but I’d like to soon. Ideally, I would love to spend a few years at home with them. But my husband is a teacher, so supporting three or more people on his income would not be easy. Modest as his income is, though, it’s still larger than mine. Add into the mix that I enjoy my job, and that as dangermom has pointed out, years spent not working are years spent not contributing to Social Security or a 401(k). In many ways, it feels like it would be selfish for me to leave work. On the other hand, the thought of putting my baby in daycare for 40 hours a week breaks my heart a little.
Wow, that was rambling and probably not helpful. Just wanted to let you know that you’re not alone in struggling with this.
Well, of course…I’m talking about choosing not to have a baby that we made a choice to have in the first place. If we were in that situation, and we had an accidental pregnancy, something would get figured out one way or another…people do cope. My point was that I agree with you…childcare is a major drain on 2-income households, and there is a breaking point where many people can’t afford to work.
That’s for sure. We hit that two years ago, when I had a good, full time job that left me a whopping $140 every two weeks after daycare, and then kid #1 got sick and I found I was pregnant with #3.
Then right after #3 was born, #1 was diagnosed and there’s not a daycare in town that will take him, let alone him and a 2-year-old and a 1-year-old. So I stay home, and raise my kids. It’s not always pleasant, but I’m here for them, from the moment they wake up until they go to sleep. I see their first steps, smiles, waves, giggles, and their first black eyes, bruises, smashed fingers and bloody lips.
Despite what some have said, it’s not really a sacrifice. I cook, so they eat healthy foods instead of take-out or fast-food or packaged foods. That saves a lot of money, right there. I spend time playing with them and teaching them, so I don’t have to pay someone else to do that.
The last time I figured, it would cost us $200 per week for me to work full-time.
I’ve been at home with the kidlets for 9+ years now.
My job happily forgotten and the company went under in the advent of 9/11. The entire career of a travel agent made redundant with the web coming along.
I have no college degree, but a life degree. I am and always have been a utility player in this game called life. Medical, mechanical and gardening are just some of my areas of expertise. Just don’t judge me on the size of my pumpkins this year. They ain’t squat and the corn is for shit. That is what I get for doing a Heirloom seed.
Staying at home has afforded me the time to not only enjoy and discover my children and what makes them tick ( they, in turn, know how to push my buttons or kiss my ass when I am peeved.) but to discover Who The Hell I am I am Wucking Funderful, TYVM and just how fucking FASCINATING this world and all it’s inhabitants really are and we are all connected. groovy, man. And the comedy of it all.
It also makes me realize that the majority of peoples ( parents or not) are all stuck in their own box. Never exploring outside the lines because they are either too exhausted from the lather, rinse repeat of life and the I’m so fucking broke I cannot pay attention let alone do X so they veg on the couch until it’s time to go to bed. Then they go to work and have the same convo and have the same thoughts and have the same planned vacation and read the same magazines. The Matrix, indeed. Having conversations with these folks is robotic, to say the least. Conform. Conform. Conform. Work. Work. Work.
I’ve tried new things, at first, out of Total Fucking Boredom and the desperate need to keep the braincells from atrophying. Now, hell, if someone said to me, " Hey Shirley, how about of weekend of mudwrestling with midgets in Kuala Lumpur with me and my third cousins best friends dog walkers wife’s stepdaughter." my response would be, " If it doesn’t cost much, I’m so there!"
A far cry from my days of being so insecure that parties and social gatherings induced an immediate headache and I usually said ‘No’ to it all out of fear of being shunned, mocked or worse, liked.
The fact that local colleges want my high school transcrips ( 20+ years ago) just mystifies me to the nth degree. I am not that girl anymore. Judging me on how well I did on those tests and classes I cannot even remember, is judging you on how well you pooped in a diaper when you were 1. It just isn’t relevant.
Am I dependant on my husband financially? Hell yes.
**Do I have a career to fall back on ** ? No. $7 an hour in a megastore is hardly a career choice if you are not mentally incapacitated.
Would I and the kids be in desperate poverty if he died tomorrow: Not at first, but then the life insurance money will run out and I better have a plan. Hookin’ and runnin a methlab.
What if my husband divorces me? Whomever asks for the divorce gets the kids.
Will future employers look beyond my lack of degree and career on a rather bland one page resume? Probably not. It is their loss. They are losing out on a faithful, hardworking, articulate, smert gal. I’ve been around Zee Germans too long to not have some of zee Prussian Werk Ethics rub off on me. goddammit.
Do I Care? It does bother me, but not as much as you would imagine.
Look, someone has to do retail, wait tables, take orders and dry off your car, Ma’am. It cannot all be third world immigrants that you bitch about being here without the proper paperwork or ability to sprechen zie Engrish. The SAHM fills that slot nicely.
With that, I have to put on my drudgewear and slog off to my deadbeat job.
Toodles.
It’s not the case with my current job (which is doing a good job of sucking my soul out), but I’ve had others which actually gave me energy. I get a terrible high when doing a lot of work pays back.
I’ve got no vocation to be a homemaker. Neither did my mother; she never chose to become a SAHM, she just managed to make a series of decisions that drove her into that role (like never applying for a position as a public school teacher and managing to piss off the headmistress at mine within weeks of getting into town). But assuming that I did, leaving my current job to stay at home would be a perfectly fine idea; if I had one of the Good Jobs - not so much.
My best friend is 59 and is the impoverished elderly woman you speak of. She’s also my husband’s ex wife. I worry every day about her future. She has no financial sense and has taken no steps toward her own welfare in her old age. She has relied on her inheritance, which is not all that much, considering she will receive a minimal payment from SS, owes the IRS nearly $30K, and has no 401K. Her mother is still alive and she is her caregiver, and is being paid $300/week from the estate.
Although I love her and feel sorry for her, there is no one to blame but herself for her situation. I feel guilty when we talk about retirement plans because her plan is to work a menial job and live in poverty (in assisted housing) until she dies. 
There is no simple answer and no matter what you do you will probably question whether you’re doing the “right” thing. That is what it means to be a parent. But the “right” thing is a trick question. There is no one right answer. Of course some choices are obviously better than others (I would not leave my two small children home alone!) but kids are pretty resiliant as long as they’re fed, clothed, and loved.
In our household we chose for my huband to be a stay at home dad until the kids are in school. The finances made it the obvious choice - I make twice what he was making. Additionally I’m in a field that is no so easy to pop in and out of (few jobs in the area and I’ve got a good one) whereas he is in electronics with a wide range of experience. It will be easier for him to reenter the workforce when the time comes. He is a great father to the kids and takes care of (most of) the household stuff so that we can enjoy family time at the end of the day.
It has not been easy for my husband, and I recognize the sacrifice he is making for his family. There are times when I catch him looking wistfully at the employment ads. But he knows that to put two kids in daycare would all but eat the 2nd salary. Yes, he is financially dependent on my salary. However if I were to be hit by a bus tomorrow, he’s got the education and experience to take up the yolk and provide for the kids.
He is one of several at-home dads in our social circle. We thought we would catch more flack for our unconventional arrangement, but more men said that they’d gladly do the same given the chance. (the jaded part of me thinks they have a dim idea of all that is entailed in staying home with small children)
There is no choice that is right or better for all families. Anyone who puts down women for their choices is being needlessly divisive.
This is a hot topic for me right now, as I am pregnant with our second child. In our house, I am the one with more education, but my husband is the main breadwinner. Currently I work 3 days a week. I used to work full time until our first child was born, and I asked my employer if they would make my position a job-share. Happily they agreed and it is working out well on that side. Our child is in day care 2 days a week, and my mom watches him one day a week. That extra free care day makes all the difference to us and to make my job worthwhile pay-wise. After adding the second child, I won’t make a whole lot after daycare expenses, but that little extra per week makes a big difference to us in our budget. Plus as others have said, I see it as a long term investment, keeping my skills current, taking free classes my job will pay for, etc. I need to get out of the house a few days a week and interact professionally with adults, but I wouldn’t want to work full time either.
Adding a second child to day care is tough. I am going through the hell that is finding affordable, reliable, quality child care right now. The big centers are right out, they are too expensive for us when you pay by the day. One child is possible, but not 2. Plus I feel that infants do better in home-based day care (if it’s a good one), I like the idea of my child having the same caregiver there each time. Toddlers and preschool age children I think can have a better time in the center type places, but again, they are the most expensive.
I have a day care provider right now that I love, and my son does too, but she does not have an opening for our next baby. The trouble with working part time is it is very difficult to find childcare that will take part-time children. Part time kids take up an opening that has to be filled with another part-time child, with opposite hours, which can be hard to find. So as soon as a full-time daycare mom has another child, they are going to take that baby over mine. It is much easier for daycares to fill their days with full time children, and often their pricing reflects that.
This is such a tricky time right now, trying to find that balance between my life and my kids’, making money and making sacrifices, and finding day care that I am comfortable with. I wish I could take a longer maternity leave also, but working part time I am not eligible for any paid time off other than my own saved vacation days. If I had my way I think I would stay home for about 6 months before going back. I remember being upset when I returned after 12 weeks the first time, I just felt that he has too little then to leave. After he got older I felt much better about being gone part of the time, and I saw how much he enjoyed his time with other kids too.
It is funny, as we were considering our options for the upcoming day care, working hours, etc. it did come up that we give up daycare for a while. But I feel now that my oldest (he is 3) needs some time away, with kids his own age. If he wasn’t in daycare I would put him in preschool twice a week for sure. I don’t think him being home all day every day with me is good for him either.
This is really long! There are so many things to consider for each family that I strongly believe there is no one size fits all advice. You do what you have to do, usually making compromises along the way. I really think the answer to the question “Can you have it all?” Is “yes, but not all at once.” It is up to each family to find the right balance.
I’ve actually mentioned this in a couple of threads lately, but I regret my choice already, and my daughter is barely a year old. As Dangerosa said, it’s a heart thing. Never discount the importance that emotions play in this decision.
I gave the matter a lot of thought growing up, and as a young woman. I felt like it was my duty as a woman to work, and that relying on my husband financially would lessen me in a way. I thought that like my mother and the majority of the smart, strong women I knew, that juggling a career and kids would be relatively easy, and that I would maximize my satisfaction with my own life by having the best of both worlds. My husband and I discussed it from time to time when we started dating seriously, and when we decided we were ready to have kids. We both felt good about staying a two-income family, and on we went.
Then my daughter was born, and I cannot for the life of me fathom how I ever felt that way. I have never in my life wanted anything as badly as I want to be home with her, and every single day it breaks my heart all over again to go to work at a job I don’t give a crap about when every iota of my body, heart and soul are screaming to be with her. I try and try to remember how I ever thought this was a good plan, and I have no idea. But, when we thought we had thought it through, we made certain decisions based on the expectation of two incomes that would be hard or impossible to undo, so we can’t go back now.
It’s a constant ache that I am scared will never go away, and I urge you to remember that you don’t know how parenthood will feel for you. Of course YMMV, but I think it’s wise, if you even suspect it might be something you would want, to try to prepare at least to some degree financially and emotionally for either option. Then you can make the final decision when you know how your feelings about your child and your new role affect your life and your goals.
I feel for you. It is a lousy feeling. I think work-from-home or “off-shift” options are going to become more and more available in the near future. I wish employers would take more advantage of these possibilities. They open up possibilities for both the employee and the employer.
The problem with off shifts is that shift parenting is no fun either. Currently my husband works second shift and we both hate it. We hardly see each other, and we feel like we are tag team parents. He sees our son about every other day for some time in the morning, but evenings I am home alone with him every single night, and I am really tired of it. On days that I do work, I get to come home and make dinner and do bedtime by myself, then I am stuck home alone for the rest of the evening unless I want to get a sitter so I can go out and see a friend or go grocery shopping. On days that I don’t work, we see each other in the morning, but often that is my only time to get errands done or have an hour or 2 to myself so we still don’t get to spend much time together. He is working hard at getting back on first shift.
We could probably fix it now so we didn’t need daycare at all, if I pushed my hours earlier and he pushed them later, but it is already putting a stress on our marriage. I want my husband to be my husband, not just someone I hand our kids off to. I feel a little like a single parent who gets alimony sometimes (although we do have weekends together, when he is not on call that is.)
Indeed, many if not most women (and men) don’t have a choice. But workaholics have an excuse also - working a bit harder will prevent them from getting laid off, or get them that raise, or that bonus. Sometimes this is even true. It’s true for women also. Our society gives out mixed messages all over the place.
I’m a bit skewed since I read the Times, and I get stories about VPs whose husbands are multi-millionaires more than stories of real people.
Okay, I know this is a hijack and all, so I apologize, but norinew, how did you end up being a phone sex operator? Did it pay very well? Was it an easy enough job or was it harder than it seems?
As far as SAHM vs WOHM, I don’t think one is inherently better than the other. I think it depends on the situation.
Elret–that is so hard. When I was a SAHM, I fell into a depression–not just because my life lacked focus (I mean in a time-schedule kind of way), but because I never considered that getting paid for my work and receiving recognition (even at the level of “thank you” from a patient) meant so much to me.
I had always planned on staying home with my kids–always.
In a way, I wish I still could. But I found PT work that works for us. Is it ideal? In some ways–in some ways not. PTers are the last people to get their requested days off and the first people asked to work extra. The FTers don’t see it as “extra”. IMO, you hired me for 2 days a week and that is what I work. If I wanted more, I would have asked for more (this is barring a coworker emergency or similar).
But I DO miss being the stable hub. I’m still the hub and I’m still stable, but the timing is tight and the balance is precarious. I don’t feel rock solid with me working. But I was miserable with no structure. I’m sure this is simpler for some women, but it never has been for me.
and for those who think that all this gets easier once the kids are in school–you are deluding yourself. Sure, now they can tie their shoes and fold their clothes etc–but there are sports, music lessons, homework projects etc. Yes, you aren’t faced with screaming meltdowns from your pre-schooler–but you have other balls in the air. And the teen years can be the most stressful–I have “good” teens (no drugs, no sleeping around), but even so–they still look to you for emotional support (even though they would die to admit it). Yes, it’s great when your middle school child can let himself in after school–but should he be unsupervised? and where to find the help to “watch” a tween? It doesn’t get easier-it gets different.
Sorry to be such a downer. I struggle with this every day.
Link to relevant thread.