I’ve been invited back for a second interview with a small nonprofit organization I would like to work for. The job is an intensive case management position matching homeowners with homeseekers in order to prevent homelessness. It requires detailed assessment of the applicants and the homes, and there will be some fundraising/publicity duties as well.
I have an M.S.W. and this would be the start of my career as a social worker. I have two years of somewhat relevant experience that I acquired before grad school. I would be the only Spanish speaker on staff, which I think is an asset.
The sites online give dramatically different numbers as starting salaries- from $20,000 to $35,000. Does anybody know the average salary for a job like this (in New Jersey)?
Also, I’ve never tried to negotiate a salary. I’m worried about aiming too high and not getting the job because of it. I want to ask for $30,000 but I’m worried that’s too high. Any advice in that area would be greatly appreciated.
What is the cost of living like in your city? I find that seems to play a big roll in what you get paid - for instance, my job pays above the average salary for my city, and I expect that it would in any city I was in; however, as the average salary dropped, I expect my salary would as well - makes sense - pretty well no job pays as much in PoDunk, NoWhere as it does in Metropolis.
So, get a sense of that - is your city expensive or cheap to live in, then adjust your expectations based on that.
I would expect that if you are offered the position, the offer will include a salary number - this is only a starting point and you should be prepared to have a counter offer; however, I would have a justification for why you want the higher salary.
That being said, if they offer you exactly what you want (i.e. $30K) I think I would just take it and be happy - that’s what happened with my current position - I was actually offered more than I had hoped to get so I said ‘Yes please!’ and that was that. As far as I’m concerned, negotiating salary is one of my least favorite activities - if my expectations have been met, why stir the pot? I recognize that I may be alone in this and some folks feel that if they offered you $X, they’re really willing to pay $X+Y. I don’t care - if I’m happy with $X I take it, the extra $Y be damned.
It’s been a while since I’ve seen any budgets from organizations similar to what you’re applying to, but $30k is extremely reasonable. Here’s what I’d do:
Contact your local HUD office (link).
Ask for a copy of the most recent local Continuum of Care awards, as well as the most recent HOME award. (They’ll probably direct you to the local municipality responsible for those applications.)
Ask them if they’re aware of any HUD-funded organizations in your area that use money to pay (even partially) for “supportive services” (that’s HUD for “salaries”), and if you could have a copy of that organization’s last several applications.
Either dig through them yourself, or I’d be happy to help.
The fact that you will be the only Spanish speaking employee is invaluable, in my opinion. You have the degree and the experience, so you would be a great addition for those qualifications alone. The fact that you can translate for your own clients, as well as helping out your co-workers, is something that makes you as valuable as two employees. You could almost look at it as being a full time and a part time employee all in one. I’m probably not describing it very clearly, but hopefully you know what I mean.
Best of luck. I don’t post much but I’ve been around for a while, so I’m familiar with what you have accomplished. Congratulations.
The Dept. of Labor tracks expected salary by position, county, and level of experience here. This will give you at least a general idea, and it does vary quite a bit by county.
Yes, be VERY sure not to sell yourself short. Bilingual employees command higher wages, so you should add a premium (say 5kish a year) onto what you’re expecting to make. You should not be afraid to negotiate. They are not going to rescind an offer because you try to negotiate. They will expect you to, so do it! The worst they can do is say the salary is not negotiable–they aren’t going to rescind an offer during negotiations. However, *don’t *be the first to put a number out there. Resist providing a preferred salary (always say “negotiable” or “0” if it’s an electronic form that only accepts numerical input). Wait for them to make you an offer, first. Then, no matter what the offer, your counteroffer should be that number plus +5k.
On the inside, I’m thinking, wow 30k a year is it? With a master’s degree?? I think you should aim higher than that. Although I don’t know typical salaries in your field, $30k seems obscenely low given how much a master’s degree costs to obtain. I know it’s a nonprofit and they usually pay less than the private sector, but still… **I’m **making 30k, in a crappy call center, *without *a degree (also, I’m not bilingual). I *really *think you should aim for at least 40k, but again I’m not in your field.
If it turns out salary is not negotiable, then you should negotiate for more in terms of fringe benefits (like paid vacation days).
What it basically comes down to is this. I’ve been out of work for almost a year. The time of choosiness has passed. Employees are not the ones calling the shots these days. Any amount of money is greater than zero, ya know? The higher paid social work jobs are generally organizational vs. direct service. I ultimately want to be in one of those jobs but you have to start somewhere. In the meantime I can put in some volunteer work developing the skills I’ll need for those higher paid jobs.
That’s the plan, anyway. ETA: Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I will be going in much more confidently to ask for what I want.
I wouldn’t worry about selling yourself short or overshooting, unless you were planning on setting a really hard line, which you aren’t. You probably know best of anyone in the thread that nonprofits just simply are not paying these days. You can ask for a number you think is reasonable, and the agency will understand that it’s reasonable, but they’ll also expect you to understand that what they’re actually going to pay is $X, and if you don’t want it 150 other people do.
In other words, for people who don’t feel all that comfortable negotiating salary yet work in an overeducated, underpaid field where it’s very difficult to just take whatever you’re offered, these horrible times are actually a small blessing in disguise. Everyone’s going to understand from the outset that what you’re going to get paid is going to be less than half of what you’re “worth.” So ask for $30. The worst case scenario, as long as you indicate you’re open to a different offer, is a sad smile and a different offer. Especially at a second interview, which these days means that of the 45 candidates they thought were well qualified, you’re one of the god knows who many who are well qualified and they really, really liked.
The folk notion is that a high ask means they might go with someone else, but I’ve worked for a half-dozen non-profits and no organization I’ve ever worked for actually worked that way. In my experience, no one really looks at the salary ask as a means of distinguishing candidates. They will pick the person they like best, and negotiate a salary they are capable of paying with that person.
I’d be curious to hear from someone with actual experience of it working the way we often fear it might.
But if I’m right, then a high offer just means a better bargaining position. Any theoretical danger (apart from the possibility of rejection at an early stage because of the ask) just doesn’t apply to the scenario where you’re asking for 30k. Or even 40k, which is where I think you should start.
If you’re worried about seeming unreasonable, just have clear reasons for the ask: bilingual, master’s, etc. You won’t seem unreasonable if you have reasons, I promise.
Depends on the non-profit. The one I work for posted an ad for a position paying $30,000 today… for 20 hours a week and only asks for a BA. Of course, we’re attached to the state university in a way I haven’t yet fully grasped, so that might be different. So I suggest olivesmarch4th look at job listings at nearby universities if asking what she’s worth doesn’t work out.
The first question you want to ask is “how is this position funded?”
If it’s funded by a grant, then it pays what the grant says it pays, for as long as the grant says it will be paid. Period. If it’s a three-year grant for $30K/yr., that’s what they’re going to pay.
If it’s funded by the organization, they’ll have a little more flexibility. But one thing you need to remember is that in the world of not-for-profit, any salary is considered overhead, and the organization wants to show its donors (private or institutional) that funding is going to programs, not people.
In my experience, they send a pretty strong signal about what’s in the budget before they ever get to the job offer stage.
Don’t feel embarrassed or awkward about raising this topic. Especially in working in nonprofits, it can feel uncouth to talk about money- but it’s not. In the discussion of the position, information about the funding should naturally come up. If it doesn’t for some reason, ask that question as others have mentioned.
You don’t have to give a dropdead number- you can give a range. If you have a sense that 30K is on the high end, you could say something like “I’m looking for a salary between 26 and 32k, depending on benefits.” If they offer you a position that is on the low end of what you can accept, and you are not comfortable with directly negotiating, you can always say something like “I need to look at what my student loan payments would be at that salary and see if that will work for me.” That will give you time to go home and figure out if you can afford the lower salary.
It sounds like you really want to be working (having looked for over a year), so you may end up with a salary lower than you prefer, but it could be worth it if the option is not working. Is there any person or resource from your graduate program you can contact to see what they think of the salary range?
In addition, if the job is a good fit for you and your Spanish skills are valuable to the organization, there is no reason to think you won’t be valuable to other organizations. In six months, maybe you can go to them and leverage your skills and abilities for a raise. Another option to consider is that you might be able to control your future at the non-profit by writing grants that would give you a higher salary. So, both in terms of your own professional development and career path and the direction the organization is heading in, I would recommend asking about grant writing and future funding streams in the interview. If you get a positive response, you might want to indicate that’s something you’d like to pursue.
It sounds like you’ll be speaking to people in person, so you can state a range, or initially say it’s negotiable and discuss it from there. What you want to do is put off the discussion about pay as long as possible. You want them to decide they want you before you discuss a price. They’ll try to get you to name a price first, and that’s when you offer a range, and start asking questions.
First, just because a grant pays $X doesn’t mean the organization can’t go out and find more salary to remain competitive or attract employees. Secondly, salary for a case worker would absolutely not count as overhead. Case workers *are *the program in many instances.
Seriously, Olives - my offer stands. I’ve worked for many years in this field (not as a case worker, but as a grant manager getting dozens of these organizations federal funding), and can help dig out any organizations in your area that may have salary information. Getting some comparisons would help you immensely.
That’s social work for ya, especially starting salaries. I’ve had a lot of friends in the field. It’s sickening, but that’s sometimes what it is. Even with a master’s degree.
I don’t really have anything to add - just to echo what others have said: state a range, give your reasoning (“I’ve seen salaries in the range of X to Y, and I feel I’m qualified for the upper end of those salaries, given that I have a Master’s, I’m fluent in Spanish, and I’m sporting the bodacious rack you see before you.”), and emphasize that you’re willing to negotiate, if it’s the right position.
And if you later find out that you’re really getting shafted, then you can leverage a raise or go elsewhere. But as you say, better to be making something in the meantime.
Mostly, though, I just wanted to pop in and wish you luck. I think you have an *excellent *shot at this. You should be very proud of all you’ve accomplished.
