Well said.
I swear to God if anyone calls me a Yankee I’m tossing a knuckleball at their noggin’.
I find it amusing that Samclem’s post states that it’s not ok to refer to the Japanese as Japs, but it IS ok refer to Jewish girls as Japs. It’s not exactly considered a compliment in that context, either.
And of course, that particular word has nothing to do at all with any racial slurs, except in the minds of the ignorant.
That was kinda my point.
Having read Quartz’s original post, I don’t believe he intended to use the word as a slur. This is of course just MHO.
It’s unfortunately true that human beings have enough inherent nastiness in them to keep inventing new derogatory names for people they’re bigoted against. That doesn’t mean we have to cave in to nastiness and bigotry by pretending that derogatory names have suddenly become socially acceptable.
People who enjoy calling one another “japs” or “niggers” or “kikes” or “bucks” or “squaws” or “chinks” can use those names in their private conversations with like-minded persons all day long, as far as I’m concerned. And if they want to try to use those names in polite society as well, that’s their right, as long as they’re willing to face the consequences in terms of social disapproval and outrage. Moreover, well-meaning people should not be roughly chastised for using a derogatory name if they didn’t realize it was derogatory.
But whining about PC oppression just because it’s gently pointed out that a term that is widely recognized as an offensive and derogatory ethnic slur is not considered appropriate for use in polite discussion? :rolleyes: That kind of pseudo-courageous posturing began to get tiresome back in its heyday in the '90s, and it’s long since jumped the shark.
Huh? You were trying to argue that the term “Jap”, like the term “niggardly”, “has nothing to do at all with any racial slurs, except in the minds of the ignorant”?
That’s ridiculous. The reason it’s silly to be offended at the term “niggardly” is that (at least until the famous flap over it) nobody ever did use it as a racial slur, even though some ill-informed people confused it with the similar-sounding but unrelated racial slur “nigger”. This is not at all the case for the derogatory term “Jap”. “Jap” was very widely used in a deliberately contemptuous way as a racial slur for many years, and is still widely recognized as such. It’s silly to pretend that a word that’s been commonly used deliberately to insult and offend is somehow not offensive or insulting.
No, I meant that I knew it wasn’t a racial slur and was just using it as a joke. I wasn’t trying to equate it with Jap at all. Granted I wasn’t very clear but I wasn’t really try to be serious, fuck it, take it whatever way you want.
As I’ve said though Jap over here is as racist a word as niggardly, that is it isn’t at all.
In the US it is. Fair enough. Some consideration should be given to the locale of the posters particulary by moderators IMO but as I’ve already said the OP should just let it go as it will get him nowhere. The mods almost certainly won’t back down and a lot of posters will take offence no matter what the context.
Hu’uh? As a Canadian, I’m supposedly in some kind of hybrid state between Yanks and Brits, familiar with the quirks of both, but … gah?
Uhhh… I’m not sure I would have noticed the one usage of it, but if you continuously used the term “Jap” I would have probably began to wonder if you were racist. What makes the word so potentially offensive is the historical context. The U.S. had unbelievably anti-Japanese racist propaganda and rounded Japanese people up in internment camps. So not a pleasant connotation by any means.
I’m notorious for my excessive PC-ness though. I’m not even comfortable saying, “Jews.”
I have known the word is a slur my entire life. I’m 29.
I am also Japanese-American. I may be mistaken, but I take it you’re not, and you don’t know many Japanese people. Is it possible you just weren’t aware it was a slur?
Language doesn’t work that way, and people don’t work that way. It’s not a matter of “this word, diminutive of this other word, can’t be offensive, because this word that is similarly shortened is not.” If “Brits” was used as “Japs” was, and if British people regarded the word the same way Japanese people regard “Japs”, then there would be some basis for asserting there is no basis in logic for people’s offense at the word. But it wasn’t.
I understand that you don’t understand why some words are offensive. And that’s fine; people can’t be expected to relate empathize with everything. But that doesn’t mean you are fine using the words anyway and then arguing with people that their offense makes no sense. Doing so makes you look like a jerk.
I will agree that outrage induced by PC posturing makes no sense. But how do you know when offense is pretend?
I’ll be honest. I was offended by the word. I’m not going to pit the OP over it or anything, but I will certainly add the notation “racist” in my mental file on him. I’m not a PC nut. I’m apathetic toward “Asian-American” causes and interests. But I did wince at the word. I am offended because I know how it was used in the past. It should not be used deliberately unless you intend to offend people. No one had to tell me any of this; I’ve learned through context what the word means and why it was used.
When it comes to slurs, I don’t expect people to be able to relate to them personally. I don’t expect you to be emotionally charged or have an understanding of the etymology of slurs. I do, on the other hand, expect you to be sensitive to the possibility of other people’s offense. I don’t expect you to automatically apologize and bow to every overzealous PC freak out there, but I do expect you to evaluate whether an apology is appropriate, and apologize if it is.
And to that end, I don’t think, “Well, in this context, it was ok” or “Where I’m from, it’s acceptable” remove you from this expectation. If you say it’s important to understand the cultural relativity or context of the acceptability of these terms, then you need to give all the cultures and contexts in question equal weight. Yes, in Britain, it’s ok to say “Japs” and it was okay in the US 50 years ago, but right now, here in the US, it’s not. And if the person you inadvertently offended is American, you can’t expect them to not take offense, or be understanding and rationalize your use of the term. They are thinking as Americans. You can’t expect them to not be offended if the term is offensive to Americans.
It’s a label of identification, of both nationality and ethnicity. As are Chinese, Hawaiian, Korean, and numerous other terms.
In both this thread and the one about “oriental” a while ago, there was one thing I didn’t understand. Even with cultural relativity in mind, how is it okay to respond to someone’s offense to your words with “get over it”? I can understand not being aware of or not understanding why people take offense to things, but I can’t understand not showing remorse when you’ve unintentionally offended someone.
“I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware you would find it offensive. I didn’t mean to offend you.” It’s not hard to say. You don’t need to concede anything, and you’re free to argue the correctness of their reason for offense after that. But to just say, “Whatever, you’re overreacting,” is incredibly rude.
For these things, I tend to think it’s the apology that separates the harmless from the racists. If you’re unwilling to apologize, I don’t think you can really blame me for drawing unflattering conclusions about you.
I have no idea either. Would somebody care to enlighten these two clueless Americans?
Oh, okay; in that case, never mind. Sorry! You did say that you were drunk, but I didn’t notice. 
Especially since, as samclem has noted, he expressed his disapproval of the term in a very mild and polite way:
If Quartz honestly considers that gentle request a “castigation”, it’s hard to know how to make the point in a way he wouldn’t get upset about. How should one warn a poster that s/he’s using a word that is considered a derogatory slur which is inappropriate for the boards, if even such a mild remark as samclem’s provokes a miffed and huffy trip to the Pit?
Cockney rhyming slang, I believe. Yanks -> Septic tanks -> Septics.
Oh. Of course. How blobvious.
Yeah, but it’s usually shortened to “sepos.” That’s how I’ve always heard it.
It’s people like you, Quartz, that make gaijins like me look bad. Color me annoyed.
The important thing is for everyone to make sure they understand the intent behind the word, rather than just focusing on the word itself.
Now, in the case of extremely offensive words such as ‘nigger’, it’s very important to use it only in a context where it’s clear that no offense is remotely intended. The last sentence, for example.
In the case of a word like ‘Jap’, which isn’t so universally recognized as an expression of hatred, it would be prudent to just stop for a second and think about the context in which the word is being used before judging that its use was despicable and the author a bigot.
After all, I can sound just as prejudiced and hating without using any of those words. For example, I could call someone a ‘macaca’, and everyone’s sure it’s some kind of racial slur even before they go digging through directionaries to find out what the hell it means. The intent behind it was obvious.
It’s not the word. It’s why the word was chosen.
Does this image tell you why “Jap” is offensive?
A two-fer – Adolf Hitler AND Tojo!
Not just cartoons, either, you could take in a Popeye flick.
Of course, Jap stereotypes like that aren’t a problem these days. Are they?
When I lived in Japan (1990~1996), the Japanese government considered the term gaijin to be a slur and mandated that broadcasters would use the non-slur gaigokujin instead when referring to foreigners.