[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip]
Well, divorced of its etymology, it is the same: an abbreviation consisting of the first syllable of the word.
It’s a shame, from a linguistic standpoint, that endowing certain terms with the status of “slur” is robbing us of several otherwise perfectly good verbal shortcuts.
(How else could one shorten, in a non-offensive way, “Nipponese” or “Japanese,” anyway? “Nippo” and “Jappa” sure doesn’t sound any better to my ears.)
[/QUOTE]
Divorced of it’s etymology it isn’t word-- it’s just a series of letters. It makes no sense at all to “divorce” a word from its etymology. Too bad there isn’t a short cut. What short cut do you use to describe Indians? How about Filipinos? Are you OK with “Flip”?
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Well, just a few days ago, when I discussed “Nigger Jim” in the context of Mark Twain’s novel Huck Finn.
In that context, my usage is not racist.
Just as in “The Yanks beat the Japs in WWII” the term “Jap” (or the term Yank) isn’t racist. It is being used in it’s proper historical context.
Can we use “Nazi” to refer to the Stormtroopers and SS of the of the Third Reich? Does anyone object to that?
The only time when “Jap” should be used is in it’s proper historical context, as refering to the Imperial Japanese of WWII. Jus like “Nazi” is used to refer to the SS and such of the same war- but we don’t call modern Germans Nazis.
[/QUOTE]
Oh dear god, have you been huffing paint thinner?
“Jap” in its historical context, as you used it, is DEFINITELY racist, as the term back then was MEANT to be racist. Jesus.
And the Nazis called THEMSELVES “Nazis”. It was the NAME of their freaking party, for crissakes. Lib, I think it’s more that “White” is just too damned vague-there are so many different groups of “white” people, that you really can’t come up with an all-encompassing slur. Now, if you were to use Kraut, Polack, Hunky, Bohunk, Mick, Dago, or Kike, then that’s different.
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
I was the one who reported said post. You cannot be that stupid. You have been on this board since 2003-if you don’t know that the word Jap is a major slur, then you must be incredibly, insanely fucking stupid.
[/QUOTE]
I knew that reading Danny Orlis books 20+ years ago…
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Too bad there isn’t a short cut.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I believe that’s what I just said. I didn’t say we should ignore the etymology, simply that the etymology is what renders one acceptable and the other a slur, when they are otherwise identical constructions.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
What short cut do you use to describe Indians? How about Filipinos? Are you OK with “Flip”?
[/QUOTE]
Never heard the term before. Apparently it does exist, though. “Used by Filipino youth to describe those of Filipino descent,” according to the ever-accurate Wikipedia.
Good question. Should I be okay with that term? Does any slang term for an ethnic, racial, or national group become derogatory if I (as a non-member of that group) use it, even I don’t intend it as a slur?
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
And the Nazis called THEMSELVES “Nazis”. It was the NAME of their freaking party, for crissakes.
[/QUOTE]
Technically, the name of their party was ‘Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei’.
It’s a shame, from a linguistic standpoint, that endowing certain terms with the status of “slur” is robbing us of several otherwise perfectly good verbal shortcuts.
(How else could one shorten, in a non-offensive way, “Nipponese” or “Japanese,” anyway? “Nippo” and “Jappa” sure doesn’t sound any better to my ears.)
[/QUOTE]
Which raises the question: Why is any shortening necessary?
[QUOTE=samclem] quartz. It’s possible that I, in the US, and being a child of the WWII generation, am more sensitive to “Jap” as a slur. If I understand, you are in the UK, where it may not carry the same weight. But I think it pretty well is understood in the modern world as a slur.
I only meant my note as a light chiding. Not a warning.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=indierock82]
Aside from this bringing up a vague memory from Clerks 2, I have a question.
Are the “white” people on this board offended by being called a cracker?
I’m not and don’t understand how that is the supposed equivalent of nigger.
Just wondering.
[/QUOTE]
Cracker is of course a racial slur. But few think it packs the punch of “nigger”.
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
Of course, Jap stereotypes like that aren’t a problem these days. Are they?
[/QUOTE]
Wow. Just, wow. That woman is a four-star, gold-foil dipshit.
Let’s see, the bunny in the picture is offensive, because he’s pictured with buck teeth. Here’s a hint, lady: do a Yahoo Images search for “cartoon bunny”. In fact, here you go. Notice something about more than half of them? Bunnies are drawn with buck teeth you fucking moron!
What else do we have here? Ah, this is a good one – ‘“…when you open the card up, it says ‘Hoppy Easter,’ which is another derogatory phrase,” said Low’. How in the fuck do you get “derogatory” out of “Hoppy Easter”?? It’s a kids joke that you’ll find on hundreds of Easter cards!
Sweet mother of fuck, why are people so in love with being offended??
[QUOTE=John Mace]
“Jap” is a derogatory word, because it originated as a derogatory term.
Language doesn’t follow regular rules all the time, so pretending that “Jap” is the same as “Brit” is just ignorant. .
[/QUOTE]
Cite? I am pretty sure it originated as a way to shorten Jap, like Brit or Yank.
But as been said here “Brit” is a racial slur. Mild yes, but so is “Jap”.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Cite? I am pretty sure it originated as a way to shorten Jap, like Brit or Yank.
[/quote]
There have already been cites in this thread.
You’ll never hear a Japanese person referring to himself as a Jap, but it’s common to hear Brits call themselves Brits. If you can’t comprehend the difference, then it’s because you don’t want to.
Anything can be a racial slur, if it’s intended to be, but some words are used exclusively or primarily as racial slurs. Again, pretending not to understand that is simply celebrating one’s own ignorance.
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
Which raises the question: Why is any shortening necessary?
[/QUOTE]
It isn’t “necessary,” but it seems to be a natural human tendency, the same way we favor contractions, nicknames, acronyms, etc. Either time is exceedingly precious or we are linguistically lazy, or both.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Lemur, you’re too smart not to know this. “Jap” is a derogatory word, because it originated as a derogatory term. Would you use “Jap” in a business meeting? Language doesn’t follow regular rules all the time, so pretending that “Jap” is the same as “Brit” is just ignorant. You know better.
[/QUOTE]
Of course I wouldn’t use “Jap” in a business meeting, or while walking down the street. I wouldn’t say, “I got a new Jap motorcycle today”, nor would I say, "Y’know, those Japs over at Sony make some good electronics, " nor would I say, “Let’s go eat sushi over at the Jap restaurant on 39th,” nor would I say, “Take the package down to Bob…you’ll recognize him cause he’s the only Jap in the 3rd floor cubicle area,” nor would I say, “Kenji, how are you Japs over in the Tokyo office doing?”
Fill in obligatory mouse, house, box, fox, and so on.
But neither would I have any sort of visceral reaction to seeing a headling from 1945 like “JAPS SURRENDER!”. Nor would seeing someone use “Japs” in a message board discussion of WWII jump out at me.
I understand language isn’t rational. But still, “Jap” seems more crude and ignorant than hateful. Yeah, ANY word can be used to as a racial slur. But “Jap” is pretty mild, at least to me. More on the order of “Mick” or “Honkey” rather than “Kike” or “Nigger”.
[QUOTE=Lemur866]
I understand language isn’t rational. But still, “Jap” seems more crude and ignorant than hateful. Yeah, ANY word can be used to as a racial slur. But “Jap” is pretty mild, at least to me. More on the order of “Mick” or “Honkey” rather than “Kike” or “Nigger”.
[/QUOTE]
Ask any of your Japanese friends if “Jap” is a mild slur.
Ok, then, no “Japs”. We’ll cal them “Evil, Mass murdering, Biological weapon using, vivisectionist, chemical weapon using, torturing, cannibalistic, mass raping, genocidal, war criminals of Japanese descent”.
Much better.
There is no term that is too strong to use for these vile acts.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Ok, then, no “Japs”. We’ll cal them “Evil, Mass murdering, Biological weapon using, vivisectionist, chemical weapon using, torturing, cannibalistic, mass raping, genocidal, war criminals of Japanese descent”.
Much better.
There is no term that is too strong to use for these vile acts.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing that link, DrDeth. Because, of course, the only reason people are objecting to the use of the word “Jap” is because of the sympathy they have for the military and government policies of Imperial Japan.
Next up, Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb teach us why it’s okay to use the word “kike.”
