I was a work. I was talking about Dashiell Hammett. I got the deer in the headlights look. “You know, Sam Spade, Maltese Falcon, the movie with Humphrey Bogart…no…?” That’s when I dug myself ra deep hole… not having heard of Maltese Falcon I went for “lover of Lillian Hellman…you know, playwrite, author of The Children’s Hour.”
Haven’t lived it down since. People that have a vague notion of who Humphrey Bogart was are not going to recognize Lillian Hellman’s name as anything other than “did her family make mayonaisse.”
Well, the assumption is that people don’t know about them. I once made reference to Sarah Bernhardt in a YA story; the editor asked me to change it. I did not. It was a joke and I preferred to keep it in and have one in a thousand people pick up on it, then remove it.
The reference was as follows:
I knew something was wrong when I woke up inside the coffin.
I’m no Sarah Bernhardt. … .
When I explain the joke, people love it. I’m glad I kept it in.
Janice Dickenson is a stupid, overrated hag. “First super model” my ass. Even IF we disqualify Nesbit, I would think Twiggy was far more famous and well-known than she ever was.
I’ve seen Ragtime (didn’t read the book, but I think I shall), but I’ve never seen the Joan Collins movie. It would be a great story for movie now, I think.
The cool thing is that both Thaw and Nesbit were from right here in Pittsburgh. The local regional history center has the Thaw family papers in their archives, so I was able to use them in my paper.
At one point, Nesbit was engaged to John Barrymore-but Stanford White disapproved, and since he was her “sugar daddy” she listened. Too bad she ended up with Thaw instead-he was crazy. I mean, really, literally diagnosed as mentally ill.
Eve, how in the hell could anyone misspell “Nesbit?” I’d consider her a celeb, since she did act on stage, and model for illustrations (Gibson), and was a dancer after she left Thaw in the 1910s.
Honest to god truth: I first learned about Theda Bara by reading a Sweet Valley High book.
And after posting that I realized that Nesbit technically was ruled out because she was 20th century. D’oh!
Okay, how about Mathilde Kschessinska, prima ballerina absoluta for the Imperial Ballet and I believe later the Ballet Russe, who was the mistress of Tsar Nicholas II? She lived to be almost 100 years old, and was still dancing in her 90s. I think she was one of only TWO prima absolutas in Imperial Russia, because she was a soloist to the court. She got her start in the late 1900s.
Did Lola Montez ever appear on stage, or was she just an adventuress?
Yup. In one of the fancy special editions, where they tell the story of their ancestors. The twins’s great-grandmother, Samantha, was also a twin and was obsessed with movie stars.
Oh, and that should read that Kschessinska got her start in the early 1800s.
I’d heard of Maude Adams. Everyone knows about the Booth acting family, don’t they? Heard of Jenny Lind and Tom Thumb of course(come on, tell me the latter’s *real * name!) Sarah Bernhardt and the coffin, of course. When did she lose her leg? The Russian ballerina I read about in Robert Massie’s Nicholas and Alexandra, she was Nicholas’ mistress, but he broke it off when he married. She went on to marry his uncle I think, in exile after the Revolution. Lillie Langtry has been portrayed by several actresses, but I remember best Francesca Annis in the TV mini-series.
Baker, I think after Nicholas broke it off (sorry, I should have mentioned it was before he got married-no way he was cheating on Alexandra), she sort of went back and forth between two of his cousins, and ended up marrying one of them, Grand Duke Andrei. (I don’t think she ever knew which of the men fathered her son, but Andrei accepted him as his own).
I think Edward VII lost his virginity to another actress, but damned if I can remember her name. I do know that Queen Victoria and Prince Albert had a near coronary over the whole thing.
I had relatives who were involved in minstrel shows. I’ve always thought this was an amazing subculture. While my relatives were southern, their troupe was most popular in New England and Canada, and the really big names travelled Europe and a couple even made it into Asia Minor. Just incredible how recent that was (even the black performers performed in black face- the dancing sensation Master Juba [considered the father of tap dance- Charles Dickens was among his biggest fans] was so famous and admired he was actually allowed to appear in his natural skin color [mulatto] without the burnt cork).
There’s a play about Sarah Bernhardt and Eleanore Duse entitled Ladies of the Camelias- I’m not sure if it’s any good. Booth is a character in Assassins (and also the subject of a wonderfully gossipy if you can find it “biography” called This One Mad Act written by Izola Forrester, who claims that 1) he survived the barn [was in fact never there] 2) was her grandfather through a secret teenaged marriage. It was a huge bestseller in the 1930s but has been out of print for more than a half century.
I’m actually kinda relieved to have a “normal person” show up to confirm my original suspicions–and I suspect you’re right about “the majority of people in this country.” But, honest, you’ve never even heard the name “Sarah Bernhardt?”
Whuh…? Now, I wouldn’t really expect most people to recognize Hammett’s name (or Hellman’s, for that matter), but I’d think Sam Spade, the Maltese Falcon, Humphrey Bogart, etc. should all ring a bell for reasonably educated people.
AndI’d be seriously depressed if the majority of Americans didn’t know the name John Wilkes Booth – even if they didn’t know he was an actor.
Do you have a cite? In a brief search, I could find no corroboration of that claim (although it’s clear that the playwright did write parts for her, just not that one), but I found one site that claimed that play was written for someone else.
I mention for no particular reason that a nickname for drama queen leading ladies, especially in college & amateur theater, has long been “Sarah Heartburn”. I’ve known several who were called this and had not the slightest notion to whom it was a reference (actors not generally being the best read of people anyway and amateur all the moreso).
The Divine Sarah was the only 19th century person I can think of who possibly rivalled or surpassed Barnum in terms of PR and self promotion. The casket photos, the balloon rides, the fights, etc., were all preMansfield brilliant publicity generators.
You’re right to use the scare quotes. It’s not every day I get called a normal person. (But I do think I’m more “normal” on this particular matter than most Dopers, who tend to be very well educated about such things.)
I think I may have heard the name Sarah Bernhardt before. But I’m not sure. I know I’ve heard the last name Bernhardt in association with a celebrity before, but I can’t guarantee that it was her. And I really couldn’t tell you anything about her other than what’s been said in this thread.
(And I hope nobody thinks I’m trying to rain on any parade here. I do think some of this is interesting, it’s just that I know virtually nothing about these people and I suspect that most people are closer to me in this regard than to the average Doper.)
(But I do think I’m more “normal” on this particular matter than most Dopers, who tend to be very well educated about such things.)