In this thread I brought up a different take of the same question.
I was looking for books covering the battle of heaven and hell.
Spiriting Lightly made some excellent book suggestions.
I am currently in the process of reading these books and can give much more information in a few more weeks once I weed thru them.
here is the thread link
hope that helps broaden your search for the answers you seek.
Osip
With regard to the OP about Satan in the bible:
What is written about Satan in the bible is most unsatisfactory. It doesn’t give his origin, and it doesn’t describe his ‘fall.’ The biblical witness to Satan is often contradictory and conflates pagan demonology and angelology (picked up mostly from Zoroastrianism from the time of the Babylonian captivity) with Jewish superstition and anti-pagan rhetoric.
In the end, just about every non-Yahwistic spiritual entity in the bible becomes equated with or becomes a minion of Satan: the Serpent in Genesis; pagan gods; ‘Lucifer’ in the above citation (which no serious scholar says is Satan); Beelzebul (-bub); Baal; Mammon; evil spirits; possessing spirits; the Anti-Christ(s) in the letters of John [which does not appear in Revelation!]; and, the Beast in Revelation. There’s little in the scriptural text itself to warrant such conflation, but it happens in the popular mindset.
Most of what is written of Satan is extra-biblical, in works which were never deemed inspired or scriptural by Jewish and Christian authorities.
Most of what people ‘think’ they know about Satan (including some in this thread :dubious: ) comes from works like Paradise Lost which is as much a biblical description of Satan as Star Wars is a textbook on physics.
In the book of Job, Satan (which means ‘Adversary,’ which is used in a judicial manner for the name of one’s accuser or prosecutor) is one of the members of God’s royal court in heaven. When discussing the righteousness of Job, Satan suggests that if all of Job’s possession, family, and health were stripped away, he wouldn’t be all that righteous and would wind up cursing God. God says, “Wanna bet?” and allows Satan to test Job (who, in the end, as much as he laments and demands vindication, never curses God).
But after centuries of extra-biblical development, this divine prosecutor who will present the case against people at the time of divine judgment becomes one who actively tempts people hoping that they will fail judgment. Thus, the Court Adversary becomes the Evil Temptor. That is why, by the time of Jesus, he teaches his disciples to pray: “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.” (Yes, that is the better translation – the scholarship of the King James version from 400 years ago is lacking in many respects.) The ‘evil one’ is Satan who tempts people so that they will fall and fail in the final judgment that comes when “thy kingdom come.”
Besides taking on the role of the source of all evil (thus the conflation of Satan with the Serpent in Eden); the influence of apocalyptic literature turns Satan into the leader of the evil spiritual army. Apocalytic literature presents a cosmological battle of Good v. Evil that takes place both on earth and in the heavens. (This is the influence of Babylonian Zoroastrianism.) Thus, in the book of Revelation, you have Satan leading the battle against the forces of Good (led by Michael the Archangel).
And that’s about it for scriptures and Satan.
In pop demonology, you have contradictory notions of Satan, sometimes held simultaneously by the same person.
[ul]
[li]he is already completely defeated[/li][li]he will be defeated in the final battle[/li][li]he is imprisoned and punished in Hell[/li][li]he is the caretaker of Hell in charge of punishing others[/li][li]he is using Hell merely as a staging area for his earthly campaign of evil[/li][li]he is everywhere and the source of every single temptation[/li][li]he really can’t be everywhere, like God is, but he’s going after key people, like would-be Saints[/li][li]he will be incarnated (like the Son of God in Jesus) as the anti-Christ[/li][li]he’s already here as the anti-Christ[/li][/ul]
Peace.
The “Lucifer” quote refers to the planet Venus, not to Satan. “Lucifer” is based on a Latin translation of the Greek word for Venus. The passage is making a poetic comparison between the King of Babylon and God. The king is the morning star who shines briefly in the sky but then “falls” as God “the sun” ascends.
That whole war between the devils and the angels story is non-scriptural Christian legend.
Moriah did a good job with the rest of the scriptural rundown.
I hate to be the one to inform you, but Paradise Lost is written in Modern English - I’m not sure anyone’s “translated” it, unless there’s a children’s version somewhere {you never know} - short of finding a Classic Comics version {which may well exist}, in order to read it you may have to, well, read it. A good annotated version and a copy of Brody’s Notes is probably the place to start.
Moriah – beautiful job on the history of the conception of Satan.
As noted, the Satan in pre-Exilic Israelite faith appears to have been a sort of cosmic D.A. – “the accuser” who indicts the unrighteous before the High Throne. He worked for God in a role antagonistic to the human propensity to sin, as a loyal employee.
Strongly influenced by Ahriman, the evil god of Zoroastrianism, during the Exile and thereafter, the conception evolved into a rebelious archangel setting himself up as an alternative to God, leading to the modern picture of God vs. the Devil that is iconic for moral decisions today.
I decided to deal with the question as asked, not get into that evolution of the concept – but in retrospect, it was a poor decision, and I think Moriah’s post was an important one, and I want to make a point of acknowledging and agreeing with it.
This isn’t quite right. “Lucifer” is in fact Latin for “shining one”, who is the SON of “morning”, that being (probably) a reference to the planet Venus in the original poem which the author of Isaiah adapted for use. However, as used in Is 14:12, the whole phrase is a reference to a human king. This is clear from Is 14:4, which introduces the whole passage: “…you will recite this satire on the king of Babylon and say…”
Actually Jewish legend, picked up by Christians (who after all were originally Jews). The books of Enoch, already mentioned, and Jubilees (a later version of the same story) were Jewish writings that were popular with Christians. In fact, they fell out of favor with the Jews and most of the existing copies passed down through Christian hands. (This makes it difficult sometimes to separate what was originally written by Jewish authors and what has been added by Christian copyists/editors.)
Fragments of Enoch were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. This proves that the legend passed from Jews to Christians, not the other way around.
Texts of these any many other extra-canonical books can be found at this site .
moriah You have touched on what I consider to be one of the scariest books of the Bible, that is the book of Job.
It starts off saying that Satan is alive and well, walking to and fro upon the Earth and basically toying with humans as part of a bet proposed by Jehovah himself. :eek:
It ends with Jehovah winning the bet but only after much suffering on the part of Job.
Of course I realize the lesson being taught but this is the stuff of which nightmares are made.
First, thanks to moriah, Polycarp, et al for excellent posts - very educational thread. A question: does our modern image of Hell as a place of punishment come partly from “Dante’s Inferno” or something? It’s a very well-used image, at least in some churches, but I never ran across it in the Bible.
If you’re just starting out, I would recommend not reading it cover-to-cover. You really don’t need to know the full lineage of all the priests in the Old Testament, or read through large chunks of ancient rules and regulations. I’d say you should look for a “student Bible” of some sort. The one I own has several different reading plans in it - for instance reading some particular passage every day would give you a good grasp of most of the stories in the Bible in 8 weeks or something like that, arranged in an order that helps you make sense of it. And of course they have more in-depth plans, too.
Oh, and dump the King James Version. Not only does the archaic wording make it harder to read, but the modern versions are actually better translations from the original texts.
Lucifer in Latin literally means “light bearer” (from lux meaning “light” and fero meaning “to carry, to bear, to bring”). It is the Vilgate translation of the GLXX word, heosphoros (“Dawn Bringer,” the Greek word for Venus, which is in turn a translatiom from Hebrew
I have the Merritt Hughes edition of Paradise Lost here–it is 308 pages of verse in small type, so it is not easy reading–but it blows me away. Book I is one of the best, so if you can’t get into it starting at line 45 or so (describing Satan’s fall into hell), it may not be your cup of tea. There are useful notes for the confusing bits. The battle for heaven is at the end of Book V and Book VI if you want to skip right to that part–it’s told in flashback.
The notes say that Milton used every even oblique reference to angels and devils in the bible to give names and characters to the angels and devils he needed for his story. He also borrowed devil names from Jewish/cabbalistic traditions, personified sins, applied false god names from the OT to devils (Baal) and adapted biblical place names that had bad reputations for names. Genesis, Ezechial, Job, Revelations, Isaiah (you’re not wrong, HeyHomie), Tobit (Catholic bible), Psalms and Wisdom are some of the bigger sources.
Milton also heavily references Dante and the Aeneid and pagan legends (like Orpheus) which include trips to the underworld.
As for reading the bible, start with some of the shorter and more accessible books like Esther, Acts, Jonah, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon and then hit some of the ones that became really big in literary traditions (not that they all didn’t)–Psalms, Job, Isaiah, Genesis, Luke. Each one counts as a “book” on its own if you need to encourage yourself by having each count separately.
I loved Paradise Lost. Great piece of literature. But I agree, it can be a very tough read, what with all of the calling out to the Muses and whatnot.
I would highly recommend picking up Cliff’s Notes, and reading about each Book before delving into the actual Book itself. Plus, ol’ Cliffy’ll help you keep all those characters straight.
Happy
To belatedly address the OP:
Actually, Satan was not cast out of Heaven and into Hell. Rather, he was cast down to Earth, where God has allowed him to more or less do as he pleases. The idea that Satan rules over Hell is false. Judging by the book of Revelation, Hell (described as a lake of fire) is the place that God has created (or will at some point create) expressly for the purpose of punishing Satan.
I guess it depends on how you define “modern”. The KJV of the Bible was published in 1611, and according to a Google search one site states “Paradise Lost” was probably “written in London around 1650-1660”. Thus the same problems people have understanding the KJV translation should also apply to “Paradise Lost.” Although probably what is needed is less a modern translation, but instead a heavily annotated version of “Paradise Lost”.
Please give a citation to the bible where Satan is cast to Earth. I don’t think you’ll find one.
Peace.
I think you’re right again, moriah, because Milton has Satan fall to hell (in fact he falls before the earth and space were even created) and, while Milton has no problem adding detail and drama to things, he tries very hard not to directly contradict anything that is actually biblical. Once in hell, Satan sneaks out to earth, and he is traditionally sometimes called the ruler of the earth (this vale of tears), but Phase42 is probably incorrect about any biblical impact site.
Just to encourage anyone who might be thinking about reading Paradise Lost, here are some of the lines you get, just in Book I:
This is why people argue that Milton gave Satan all the best lines!
Another source of devil names I meant to mention are the names of the Titans–Milton thought the Greeks had a vague and muddled memory of the true fall of the bad angels which got made into their myth of the expulsion of the Titans from heaven by the Olympian gods.
Actually, it depends on how you capitalize it. You’re both right: It isn’t written in modern English, but it is written in Modern English (as opposed to Old English or Middle English).
Also interesting to note is that Satan in Job is properly referred to as “the satan.” Note lowercase and definite article. “The satan” is more a job title (adversary) than a proper name. It’s clear in the OT and the book of Job that the satan cannot act independently and is part of God’s court. He is not an individual character that is all-powerful like the modern Satan. This characterization and development would occur when Zoroastrianism’s duelling gods of good and evil began influencing Judaism and Christianity.
The fall of Satan is included in the Slavonic Book of Enoch. You can find more details about him in the Martyrdom of Isaiah and The Vita Adæ et Evæ.
Interestingly enough, there is an alternate take on the reason for the fall: lust for human women. There is a curious passage in Genesis that touches on this:
(Yes! Angels and humans makin’ babies—a race of giants in fact—in the Bible!)
Anyhow, somewhere in the three books of Enoch the events of this passage are further detailed. Basically, a group of archangels fall in love with humans, screw, have babies, God’s pissed, casts them out, and floods the world for the destruction and chaos caused by the Nephilim.
It’s a really fascinating read. If you’re interested in extra-canonical works, find a copy of the Pseudepigrapha (I remember it being a gigantic tome).
Why am I the only one that has noticed this?
2/3 is 66.7%
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=5613547#post5613547
Of course if you believe…
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=5615172#post5615172
Then you have your answer. But the point is still valid. Satan/Lucifer/whoever wasn’t cast down into Hell but to Earth. You are just being argumentative.
It’s not a question of “believing,” it’s a matter of objective fact. The Isaiah quote is not a reference to Satan/“Lucifer”/the Devil (a concept that does not even exist in the Hebrew Bible) but a poetic comparison of the king of Babylon to the “Morning Star.” There is nothing in the Bible that refers to Satan being cast down to Earth.