Theists and Satan

Great Debates
1

I’ve been wondering something for a while, and didn’t think it would fit into any other existing thread, so I thought a new one was in order.

Anyway, I’m wondering what those of us who believe in God think about Satan. I’m particularly interested in what the Jews on the board think about him, if anything at all.

My personal beliefs are that he (Satan) is out to destroy all humanity. The only good human, is a dead human to Satan. He’s got his minions, and they have power to wreak havoc on our lives, if we allow aren’t careful. I also think it’s fair to blame some of the bad things that happen in your life on Satan. I’m not talking crazy things, but let’s say a relative is involved in a freak car accident and dies. I think it’s not too far fetched that the devil could have influenced it in some way.

So, what are your thoughts on Satan, demons, and their attributes?

P.S. This is pretty much just a poll. I would’ve put it in MPSIMS, but I figure an argument could flare up whenever I’m around. :wink: I’m just curious as to what you Straight Dopers think.

Adam

“Life is hard, but God is good.”

2

I do not believe that a ‘devil’ exists, at least not in the way that many Christians envision. Humans are quite capable of committing selfish, malicious deeds all by themselves; they need no ‘elemental’ evil force to lure or trick them into doing so.

However, I’m not about to tell anyone else what they should or should not believe. If your religion includes an evil god along with the good one, then so be it.

I’m not a warlock.
I’m a witch with a Y chromosome.

3

Life is an extremely wonderful and complicated experience, every aspect of which is layered with subtle influences from an untold number of factors.
Into this scenario you have introduced what could only be described as a badly thought-out comic book villian with no depth of character.

4

I assume you mean “you” as in those who believe in Satan. Because, as you know, I did not invent the devil, or even my concept of him. Most of what I believe about him comes from the Bible itself.

Adam

“Life is hard…but God is good”

5

I personally do not believe in Satan or Hell (see Auraseer’s post). I think that if a person is bad, and deserving of punishment, they simply die, period. They get no Heaven, reincarnation, second chances, or whatever you happen to believe. But that’s just my personal opinion.

6

I’m sorry, ARG220, Satan as a concept does exist in the bible, but the description you give of him “bad guy with minions” is yours alone.
Question:Have you read THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS by C.S. Lewis?

7

Slythe: I’ll provide Scripture to back up my beliefs, if you like. And believe me, what I think of Satan is on the rational side of things. Whew, you should hear some Christians out there talk about “the devil did this, and the devil did that.” (Kind of like “Mama” in The Waterboy)

And no, I’ve never read, “The Screwtape Letters.” Although I think I recall a character in it named “Wormwood.” Is that correct, or am I imagining things? Please let me know.

Adam

“Life is hard…but God is good”

8

Go ahead and read the book, Adam, and you won’t HAVE to guess. This is one of those books your preacher would approve of.

9

Adam, Wormwood is the recipient of the letters written by Screwtape. Screwtape is Wormwood’s mentor and the letters are his advice to Wormwood on how to corrupt a human that Wormwood has been assigned to bring to damnation (sort of like a reverse guardian angel).

You should read it. You should actually read everything that C. S. Lewis wrote. Start with Screwtape (or the Chronicles of Narnia, if you prefer), then go on to The Problem of Pain and his other works.

Tom~

10

Thanks for the advice Tom, and Slythe. Have any of you read “This Present Darkness” by Frank E. Peretti? I’m in the middle of reading this book, and wondering if this, and “Screwtape” are similar.

Adam

“Life is hard…but God is good”

11

ARG said:

Hmmm.

Nope, way too easy.

12

As one of my heros said,in a slightly different context,“We have met the enemy and he is us.” And that is my understanding of Satan, as far as my understanding of ARG’s understanding of Satan… I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

“Pardon me while I have a strange interlude.”-Marx

13

Actually Adam, I agree with your premise. However, you do seem * not * to give the devil his due. He is not in the business of causing random car wrecks or killing humans. Living and dying are part of life. You don’t define death as * evil * anymore than you would define life as * good *. The * Screwtape Letters * mentioned by Slythe and Tom, comment that death in the state of grace is a * disaster * for Screwtape and his kind.

I guess the experiences of good and evil are personal ones for each of us as we go through life. Does evil, personified, exist? I would say “yes”. I could calmly rest that answer on my cathecism and a Jesuit education, but there is definitely more to life than what’s found in chapter and verse. I have spent a considerable part of my life in the military serving in various parts of the world, and as a cop. One night I rolled on a murder. Nothing spectacular, a shotgun wound to the wife, done by the husband. He was calmly sitting on the front lawn and offered the gun to us as we drove up. Made the confession and a very easy wrap-up. I guess it was the look in his eyes that made me freeze up. I had been to grislier crime scenes than this and was familiar with the attitude and demeanor of most offenders. I had never seen (or hope to see again) the look that he gave me. It wasn’t remorse, or guilt, or pleasure and glee. It was like staring at nothing and that feeling that came over me which was like “You could do this just as easily as me”. This was the only time I have ever been visibly shaken to the point that I went back to the patrol car and closed my eyes and remembered, for some strange reason, that I was saying Hail Mary’s in schoolbook Latin.

I kind of look back on that Stones tune * Sympathy For the Devil *

  • So if you meet me, have some sympathy

Have some courtesy, and restraint

Give all your well-earned politics

Or I’ll lay your soul to waste *

“…send lawyers, guns, and money…”

 Warren Zevon
14

ARG: after you read the CS Lewis books, read For Love of Evil and And Eternity.

15

You’re jumping the gun a bit, Kat. I agree that those are somewhat entertaining books, and they have an interesting perspective on heaven and hell. But they’re the last two books in a series of seven; they make little sense without the preceding ones.

FTR, the series is Incarnations of Immortality; the first book is On A Pale Horse. And they were written by Piers Anthony-- yes, I used to read his stuff, but I’m much better now.

I’m not a warlock.
I’m a witch with a Y chromosome.

16

Adam wrote:

Okay, here’s the straight dope on Satan:

  1. Satan resides on every non-Pentecostal web site, and will “get” whoever dares to read such a site.

  2. Satan and Adam are brothers.

  3. Hi Opal. (if you’re around).

  4. Where the heck is Ian?

  5. Satan causes all car crashes, train wrecks, and computer crashes, usually just exactly when you’re trying to post an important message to the SDMB.

  6. Just kidding, Adam.

  7. Well, I couldn’t very well end this sermon on the number 6, could I?

17

Adam, is there a difference between Lucifer and Satan? If so, please explain?

18

I wrote:

Adam, I know that this offends you, so I’m retracting it in the interests of maintaining good relations between us. Sorry, typing without thinking. :frowning:

19

adam, I was raised catholic, switched to athiesm, then to agnosticism in my late teens, now in my 30th year, I feel I have come to my own set of beliefs.

there is no god or satan, heaven or hell.not as you see them, anyway.
when a person is born, they draw from a ‘pool’ of sorts - a soul.
they own this soul for as long as they are physically alive, they add new experiences to it, they are affected by the previous experiences of this recycled ‘soul’, and then they die.
the ‘soul’ then waits for a new host.
this to me explains things like otherwise normal boys shooting up a school- they got an evil/bad/defective soul.
this also explains people like oprah, born in poverty. sexually abused, fat and black, and a woman, and she conquers all to be successful…she got the soul of a champ.

I believe that organized religion does alot of good, they help the poor and all that, they guide the ‘believers’ in what to think…because they cant reason out their own beliefs.

now, my beliefs about the soul, are mine, I draw from many cultures…I have met people who were instantly as close as family…maybe they once were…I also believe that these recycled souls are drawn back to the same recycled souls that they have always been around.

Adam, dear, I know you will reject this out of habit, but even if you are right about god and all that, he wouldnt want you to BLINDLY follow what ever nut is in charge of the church. You are young, and hopefully you will live a long life, dont close yourself off to the ideas of others, read about other religions, do some thinking outside the framework of you religion…other cultures have other ideas…and they havnt been wiped from the earth…they might be the right ones, maybe christianity is off base…
just keep an open mind while you gather your life experience.
kisses,
Kelli

20

Two points about the Jewish view of Satan:

(1) Sometimes the name Satan is used to refer to a specific being (an angel if I’m not mistaken) who has the job of trying to get people to do bad things, such as sins in general, or specifically not believing in God, and/or any other specific sin. And other times, the name is used more metaphorically to refer to a person’s desire to do evil. (Everyone also has a balancing desire to do good, but no comparable name is given to it.)

(2) It is important to note that in Jewish belief, Satan is subservient to God. I have read some Christian writings which give the impression that Christians consider God and Satan to be on something of an equal footing, in a competition of some sort. I don’t know if I might have misunderstood it, or how widely it is accepted among Christians, but I can tell you that from a Jewish point of view, such beliefs would constitute polytheism. No one is greater than God. No one is even equal to God. He created the universe and everything which is in it, and that means that He also created Satan and rules over Satan just as He rules over all His other creations. Satan is no more than another of God’s tools, which He uses in His infinite wisdom, but in ways which tend to annoy us humans a lot.