Save 20,000 people from extermination, or prevent a mass "cure" (by mindrape) of gays?

We’re back to fantasy hypotheticals, boys and girls. Management apologizes if that bothers you, and here’s a lollipop for your trouble.

First the short version. A homophobic, psychopathic supergenius has invented a ray that will force every gay and lesbian in North America “straight,” at the cost of psychological trauma that will drive up to 5 percent to suicide. To prevent Bob X–the black, bisexual superhero with Superman’s powers, no known weaknesses, and a kid in middle school–from interfering, the villain has also placed a nuke in a small town in India. Bob has time to stop either menace, but not both.

For the long version, see the spoiler box:

[spoiler]It’s a beautiful spring night in Paris, and Bob–is vacationing with his [del]adoptive daughter[/del] daughter, Lynn, and his [del] current boyfriend[/del] auditioning co-parent, Neil. Lynn is examining the Paris skyline with her binoculars when she sees a middle-aged woman on the roof of a tall building, clearly about to jump. Told about this, Bob instantly flies to the rescue. He catches the woman, Jean-Marie, just in time. She barely seems are of his presence. As he flies her to the hospital, she keeps repeating the phrase “I can’t live like this.”

Bob finds both Jean-Marie’s words and glassy-eyed expression eerily familiar, so he keeps track of her over the next few days, even eavesdropping on a therapy session via super-hearing. It turns out that she recently felt forced to abandon her female lover of thirty years in favor of the company of men, something she always–and still–finds revolting. It’s not that Jean-Marie fell out of love; far from it. But she felt a compulsion so strong it overcame her will and disgust. The therapist tells Jean-Marie that she isn’t unique; about a thousand gay & lesbian Parisians are known to have gone through this in the past few months. All were traumatized; ten have committed suicide.

Bob’s concerns grow. After taking Lynn and Neil home to Chicago, he gets a physician he trusts to examine a brain scan of one of the inexplicably-straightened. To his unsurprise, the scans show the same anomalies as those of some mind-controlled assassins he encountered a decade ago–assassins who, when when caught, all repeated phrases like “I don’t want to do this,” and had glassy-eyed stares. They–and, Bob suspects, the forcibly-straightened Parisians–were the victims of a supergenius villain who looks like this and whose name, for obvious reasons, is Lillianna Lake. Npne of the prior set of victims have either recovered or been cured, and some of the smartest people on Earth have tried.

Bob sets about tracking down Lake. A week later, he’s located her current base. Surprisingly, no death-rays, guided missiles, or giant robots attack as he approaches, and the armored door opens without having to be super-punched. Shortly he confronts Lake in her office; in her hand is a tablet computer.

“Hey there, Bobby,” Lake says. “You’re early. I thought I had another month.”

“Sorry to disappoint,” Bob replies. “So are you going to pretend you’re not behind the mind-rapes in Paris?”

“Nope. We both know you can always tell when anybody’s lying.”

“So what’s the deal? I thought you gave up villainy after the Trident affair. Found Jesus in prison or some such.”

“Oh, I did,” Lake says. “I’m doing God’s work. See, after I got saved, I realized that homosexuality is an abomination and it was my duty to reduce its presence in the world. So I escaped the SuperMax–it was easy and got to work. At first I just put on my invisibility suit, grabbed a straight reason, and sliced up a couple dozen queers in San Francisco–but as fun as that was, it was horribly inefficient. So I rejiggered my mind-control ray to force homos straight, then tested it in Paris. I was trying to stay off your radar until I was ready to go worldwide. Also, I was hoping to improve the suicide rate. I’ve got it up to five percent now–”

At that, Bob yanks Lake out of her chair and gives her the heat-vision warning glare. “Unless you want to be set on fire inch by inch,” he growls, “you’re gonna tell me how to cure this!”

“Cure?” Lake says with a smirk. “I don’t have a cure, Bob. Why on Earth would I? But there’s more you want to know. You’ve interrupted my schedule; I am not ready to fix all the world’s homos. Just the ones in North America. I have satellites in orbit that, just a few minutes from now, will send my salvation rays all over the United States, Canada, and Mexico. No, don’t worry that you don’t have time to beat the information out of me; everything you need to find and destroy the anti-fag sats is on this L-Pad, which I will unlock for you after I tell you this. This base is as far on earth as possible from Singupura, India, population 23 thousand and change. Anticpating that you might stick your nose in my soup, I’ve placed a nuclear warhead in the middle of the town, arming it when you entered this room. It’ll obliterate the town in about two minutes, and there’s no way to disarm it. Not even you are fast enough to both save the town and stop the satellites. You have to choose. Now all the info you need to make your decision is on the L-Pad. I just unlocked it–”

Bob rips the tablet out of Lake’s hand, reads the information, and curses. She has calculated correctly and precisely. He has just barely enough time to save Singapur OR stop the anti-gay rays from firing; there’s no way even he can both. Dropping Lake to the floor, he flies out of the room.[/spoiler]

What should Bob do–save the town, or stop the anti-gay rays? Either way, should he have spared a tenth of a second to rip the villain’s head off?

Stop the gay ray. The bombing, however tragic, is a one time event. One presumes that after the gay ray is used this first time, it’s going to be used again every ten years or so, because new gay people will continue to be born.

I suppose our supervillain can build a new one, but after destroying the first one, the hero has time to figure out how to stop that manufacture of them for good, or do away with the villain. It the gay ray isn’t destroyed, in ten years, the hero will probably be facing the same situation again (assuming he survives the ray, and still cares)-- that is, another jolt to the world, or the bombing of another city.

Then, of course, if the hero alerts other people to the problems, it’s more likely others are going to try to help the city with the bomb, than to try to help gay people, so he really should destroy the ray.

Extra points if he destroys it before other people find out about it, and try to duplicate it.

Yaargh, why must you put things in spoiler boxes, spoiler boxes don’t work for me, I can only see what’s behind the spoiler box by actually clicking on the quote button.

This is weird, because I wonder if the small town from India might be the one I am from, thus meaning some of my family might still be there, but I still have to say stop the anti gay ray.

5% suicide of, on the low end, 2% gay rate, of 450 million people is 450,000.

Stop the gay ray. And call some other super hero who’s not homophobic to try to stop the nuke.

This one isn’t hard. The 2010 Census said: “Approximately 594,000 same-sex couple households lived in the United States” at the time. That’s a minimum of 1.2 million gay folks in the US (obviously not even counting those who aren’t in same-sex households). That’s a lot of miserable people, and a minimum of 60,000 who will be so miserable they kill themselves. We’re already well above the India death toll.

No brainer.

ETA: Or, what bup said.

Stop the brainwashing. Both because the number of casualties will be larger, and because letting it happen is encouraging someone else to try something similar. Perhaps next time it will be “stop the nuclear bombing of New York, or stop a ray that will turn all women compulsively submissive to men”.

Yes, the maths here makes stopping the gay-ray the better option even if you consider only the number of consequent deaths.

I came up with a slightly different calculation - 5% of 1.7% (assuming that bi and trans people will not be affected, which is not clear from the hypothetical) of 565 million people gives approximately 480,000 deaths.

Check your PM box. No, scratch that; ypu might not be the only one. I’ll just repost here:

Can’t do the latter. This isn’t the DC universe; Bob is the only super at anywhere near his power level. He’s got only minutes to work with; there’s probably not even time to explain the problem again, much less find another super who can help (of which there are none).

Ten seconds to rip the villain’s head off, please. Thanks for posting the spoiler box!

Having re-read what was in the spoiler box, I must correct a typo there; the distaff Lex Luthor started her assault on gays with a straight RAZOR, not reason.

I know I’m fighting the hypothetical…a brainwashing ray might be reversible, but being blown to molecules by a bomb is not.

Stop the gay ray. The numbers make it an easy choice. But even if the suicide chances were tiny (say, less than the population of the town), I think the non-consensual identity-alteration (mind-rape) to hundreds of millions is a greater evil than the murder of 20,000.

Stop the gay-ray. I could be decent and noble and say it was for the reasons others have listed above (numbers involved, etc.) but my decision was instantly made for a much more selfish reason: I don’t know anybody in Singupura. As far as I know, I don’t know anybody who knows anybody in Singapura. I could probably take it another step as well. Whereas there are a whole bunch of people I know in North America who would be directly effected by the gay-ray. Friends, relatives, relatives of friends, etc. My monkey-sphere trumps people who I, quite frankly, wouldn’t even notice if they did get blown to atoms. I’m selfish that way.

That is not fighting the hypothetical. I agree with you. Writing as poster rather than OP:

According to the OP, Jean-Marie (the victim who drew Bob’s attention) was obliged to leave her lover “recently”–which to me means “not that very day.” I won’t insist that I’m right, but the way she’s acting–saying “I can’t live this way”–means she’s had some time feel the impact of what’s happened, and suffer from it; and to me that means she’s been straightened (and worse) for days now, if not weeks.

My point here is that the suicidal ideation does not seem to happen right away. And I doubt that Lucy Lillianna Lawless Lake has rejiggered to ray to make it come on more quickly, as she’s clearly a sadistic fuck who wants people to suffer (however she justifies it in her head). So if the anti-gay ray strikes, there will be time to warn people of what’s happening, to get them help. If Bob’s boyfriend Neil gets zapped, Bob and Lynn will know to look after him, to be ready to help, to call for help as necessary, etc. Bob will have time to rally the world’s other big brains to dedicate their time and energy to finding a cure to LL’s brainwashing. Nonetheless, the people of Singapura will remain dead, as…

[speaking as OP rather than poster]

Bob lives in a superhero universe, but not a comic-book one. Nobody comes back from the dead.

In sum…

[poster not OP]
If the anti-gay satellites fire, hundreds of thousands MAY die–but they’ll get advance notice and can be helped; and Bob will have assistance. If the nuke goes off, tens of thousands WILL die, and Bob is the only one who can stop that.

This doesn’t change my view – the “mind-rape” (non-consensual major alteration to one’s identity) of tens/hundreds of millions is worse, IMO, than the murder of 20,000.

I don’t know at what numbers my view would change, but at this ratio, the decision is not hard, in my view.

Speaking as OP rather than poster:

I don’t think what LL did was an alteration to anybody’s identity (though it was certainly non-consensual), at least not going by Jean-Marie’s experience. Jean-Marie still loved the woman she had been with for years; she still had no desire to have sex with men, and probably still found women sexually attractive, and was repulsed by what the ray compelled her to do (or attempt). I expect that LL’s ray did something to Jean-Marie’s brain chemistry that made the actual act of lesbian lovemaking physically repugnant and painful, and also gave her a compulsion to fuck men akin to the compulsion to smoke tobacco (or heroin). LL thinks that was funnier.

That sounds just as bad to me…

No, it’s worse. If LL had actually changed Jean-Marie and the others straight via her technomagic, they would still have been wronged but would not have been so traumatized, as they would not have been being forced to do something they found repugnant. Since LL clearly wants her victims to suffer (the Jesus bit is either a rationalization or a dark joke on her part), she would prefer they were remained, essentially, homosexual.

I’m just calling a spade a spade.

Sure it is. The hero has the powers of Superman, remember. He can stop the gay ray, then spin the world backwards reversing time, and stop the bomb.