In today’s Washington Post, there is a report that a crowd of devout Hindus in Dulena, India, lynched five Untouchables for killing and skinning a cow close to the construction site of a new Hindu temple. A spokesman for the local chapter of the World Hindu Council said, “We consider the cow to be the mother of the worl, of humanity, so if you’ve murdered a cow. then you’ve murdered a mother.”
I don’t care what exculpatory bullshit anyone may use, but a religion that A) keeps one class of people in semi-serf status, and b) considers a cow’s life more important than a man’s is, for lack of a better word, fucked.
I thought travelling in India was bad enough, what with the cows, pigs, and monkeys roaming freely in the cities, but this is just insane. Hopw can anyone justify beating men to death because they killed a cow (and maybe intended sacrilege)?
This is yet another argument for the abolition of religion.
Note that I am not slagging Hinduism, but the lenghts to which relgious fanaticism will drive people to act. There is much that is admirable in Hindu culture: the cosmology of the Vedas, the moral and ethical debates in the Bhagavad-gita, the sinous temple carvings at Khajuraho, but in the end it’s always the same–hatred is a more popular devotional offering than love.
Horrific, but unsurprising. I knew people who said they would murder someone in cold blood if said person “desecrated” the American flag. I don’t know of this ever happening, but people are pretty worthless sometimes, so really it’s just a matter of when.
Note also that it hasn’t even been proved that the men who were lynched actually committed bovicide! (Or whatever the hell you would call it.)
It’s like fuckin’ Salem-on-the-Ganges. I hardly ever even eat red meat any more, but now I feel like going out and having a double-cheeseburger for lunch.
I think we need to appreciate how very, very different this culture is from that of those of us in the western world. There are transgressions the simpler folk among us would consider punishable by death, as given in Anthracite’s example. It’s a great acrobatic leap in reasoning to indict the whole religion or country based on this disturbing incident.
Give me an hour, and I’m sure I could unearth enough information that, when presented with the same assumptions, would make any country on earth look like the inner circle of hell.
Except I have never heard of anyone lynching someone else for descrating an American flag. Maybe it’s happened, but it went under my radar. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone seriouslysuggest descrating a flag should result in death.
If you bothered to read my second post, you’ll note that I said that I was not slagging Hinduism in particular, but the impulse in humanity to kill in the name of their deity of choice.
Mind you, while I’m not indicting the whole country, I’ve been to India and the place really is a shithole, but one strewn with wonders, kinda like a latrine with diamonds scattered in its fetid depths.
Doesn’t seem to reconcile. And just for the record, the religion of Hinduism does not demand such atrocities, it is the interpretation of a select group of practitioners, much in the same way that the “god hates fags” sect don’t represent all Christians.
Which is perhaps an even better example, RickJay. I could easily list murder after murder in North America based on some religious motivation, yet if someone stated that Christianity and the US were ‘fucked’, I’d imagine someone would dissent. No?
You didn’t quote in full. I said, "I am not slagging Hinduism in particular; that is I am not picking on Hinduism as a uniquely wicked religion, just on this Hindu manifestation of the universal tendency to kill, harrass, or maim in the name of God. IMO, all religion is wicked. People may erect cathedrals, temples, or mosques; they may declare that their god gave them a code of benevolence and brotherhood; but you can guarantee that in practice, the common thread that runs through every religion is cruelty, bigotry, and persecution of dissenters or infidels.
Bull. The religion of Hinduism dictates mistreatment of the Untouchables (Dalit, scheduled castes, harijan, or whatever euphemism you please). Caste consciousness goes to the heart of Hinduism, and in countless villages throughout India, despite a history of government intervention, Untouchables are cruelly mistreated with little recourse to the law. Not that other religions don’t have their own version of such wickedness, of course.
Gobear, it may be a minor point, but you accuse me of not quoting in full, then go on to provide a quote that does not exist. Please point out where you used the phrase: “I am not slagging Hinduism in particular.” And at the risk of joining the ranks of the parsers: my quotes were from your posts 1 and 2, and in response to post 3, where you used a phrase similar to the one given.
To be honest, I share some of your frustration with religion, but I don’t agree with the broad brush technique you are using to make your point. Let’s be clear here, religions are just collections of ideas open to a wide range of interpretations, it is people that are the problem. Even if you were to succeed in removing religion from the equation, the people remain. If religion ceased to be an excuse to poke your sharp stick at the guy you didn’t like, rest assured you’d find another reason post haste.
My apologies for the post above. It was an accident.
What I meant to post was, that while there are backward villages which still practice the caste system, mostly in the north of India, discrimination is not allowed under law. Generally, you can co-relate these incidents with the education level in the region. Most of the country frowns on such practices.
Btw, gobear, India is not a shithole of a country. There is apalling poverty and it’s associated problems of unemployment, over-crowding, etc, but a lot is being done to try and solve these problems. While on the other hand there impressive economic growth and a large and rapidly growing middle class. There are good things and bad things, and I feel your characterisation of the diamonds in the toilet rather overstates the bad.
Pffftt, I was there, pal. The rising middle class in Mumbai or the farming out of tech work to Indian software companies does not offset the people washing themselves on the street, the piles of filth in the streets, the beggars everywhere, or the appalling lack of sanitation. The Indian government, much like ours, is too busy playing politics and trying to preserve a moribund statist economy to do much to relieve the suffering of the man in the street. (The animals, OTOH, seem to be doing well enough–I was mugged by a troop of monkeys in Agra. )
On the other hand, the food was great (when I was well enough to eat, that is), the people were hospitable, and the archeological, historical, and cultural treasures of India are staggering. (If there is a more beautiful collection of buildings than Fatehpur Sikri, I haven’t seen it.)
I live there (or here, actually). Sorry for not having that in my location bar. I’m in Mumbai.
It’s not just here in Mumbai, and it’s not just the tech sector. The middle class is variously estimated to be 100 million to 250 million people (I tried to find a cite, but couldn’t find anything other than these vague figures, sorry). I’m not trying to deny the existence of poverty or whitewash the problems, but all I want to say is that that’s not all there is.
Can I ask how long ago have you been here? Things have changed a lot in the last 10 years. Generally, there has been a move away from the statist economy with large scale liberalisation in the early 90s. There’ve been general improvements in the standard of living, increased purchasing power, etc. Of course, the poor have remained poor, and poverty has been a huge problem with no easy solutions the world over…
Anyway, as you clarified, your point was not to discuss India but to discuss (or rant about) religious fanaticism. I’m totally with you there, and I don’t think our position on India’s problems is too different either. I just wanted to point out that there was another side, another significant group of Indian people, which not many people see.
Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling.
Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling.
Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling.
Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling.
Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling.