It is at least very true that there were more stringent expectations back then for women to seem happy, however they actually felt.
I was going to mention ‘Mother’s Little Helper’ earlier. Thanks for providing an actual cite Kimstu.
Me too. Priceless.
“Subservient” and “dehumanized” are mere opinions, usually voiced by people with an agenda and hammered into their heads by other people with an agenda, or by people eager to think of themselves as victims.
Lots of other women do not agree, and their opinions carry just as much weight as yours.
And heaven forbid that any woman be happy!
The very idea is an outrage, right?
An agenda along the lines that everyone has rights? How dare they!
It’s your chosen description; likely given in confidence to someone you’re comfortable with. Fuck everyone else. But then, you’re a jerk if you let other people hear it. As to social media, meh. Write whatever you want.
Oh, I don’t know. I’ve known a great many women over the course of my life who work at and would take pride in being considered a “hot chick.” Some even consider themselves feminists, they just seem never to have gotten this particular memo.
Still, I don’t believe the objection is that men have been calling women “hot chicks” to their faces. Rather it’s simply the act of referring to women as “hot chicks” to begin with the is the offense.
I’ve even heard it stated in the past that a woman’s attractiveness should never be mentioned at all, that there’s never a good reason for it and it’s always bad.
I LOL’d.
Subservience and dehumanization are both measurable conditions Sir Gallahad OTPL, not opinions at all. And I’m nobody’s victim anymore. Being just on the cusp of ‘late middle-age’ I’ve been subject to and seen too many MALE opinions and agendas hammered into women’s heads over the years. Do NOT try to marginalize my opinion now by telling me and by extension all women what is good for them and what they want you crusty old fuckhead.
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Right. Lots, I bet.
Did you read the cites above?
Fuck off SGOTPL.
Oh, I don’t know. I’ve known a great many women over the course of my life who work at and would take pride in being considered a “hot chick.” Some even consider themselves feminists, they just seem never to have gotten this particular memo.
Still, I don’t believe the objection is that men have been calling women “hot chicks” to their faces. Rather it’s simply the act of referring to women as “hot chicks” to begin with the is the offense.
I’ve even heard it stated in the past that a woman’s attractiveness should never be mentioned at all, that there’s never a good reason for it and it’s always bad.
Needless to say, I found this claim…idiotic.
Why? Don’t you hold yourself out as being a gentleman? That wouldn’t be gentlemanly behaviour, now would it?
No, I think a more accurate description would be that only overly zealous left-wing crackpots taking things waaay to seriously object to the term “hot chick.”
Amazingly, you’ve managed to go off the rails twice here in just three words.
First of all, you should know by now, having participated in the ‘act like ladies’ thread, that to call women “Ladies” these days is verboten. It’s sexist and demeaning a proscribes behavior intended to put the onus on women to make sure men behave.
Plus by implication it means any woman not a lady is a slut, which is problematic in its own right because there’s supposed to be no such thing as a slut in the first place. So by calling a woman a lady, you’re by implication calling women who aren’t ladies something that doesn’t exist. And this is a problem, why?
I swear I’m getting dizzy trying to keep up with all this stuff.
Oh, but I digress. If you’ll recall, I mentioned that you went off the rails twice.
The second way was when you claimed the ability to think.
Certainly, it would have been had I done it to her face.
I didn’t.
Heck no. We object to women being subjected to invasive and unacceptable deliberate assholery, and being dismissively told that they should just shrug it off as “low-grade hassles”, precisely because we want women to be happy.
Being hassled by aggressively entitled men demanding attention for their crude expressions of their opinions about women’s bodies doesn’t actually make women happy.
There’s been cases of guys raping women over 80 or women in a coma. I guess it doesn’t get more “subservient” than “comatose”, but still, yuck.
Yes, but would you have felt the same way had you become invisible in your teens or your twenties or thirties?
My guess is that if you’re like most of the plain or unattractive women I’ve known during my life, you’d feel inferior and resentful of the fact that the attractive girls get all the attention and other goodies that go with being pretty while you get left on the sidelines.
I have a friend who has been exceedingly good-looking all her life. Had model looks even in her early teens. And she knows it and does everything in her power to amplify it. Even in her sixties she draws lots of attention. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen women and teenage girls visibly shrink in her presence. Some young girl or woman will walk around the corner of an aisle we’re in and as soon as they spot her they sort of exhale, droop down and adopt an I’m-not-worthy expression on their faces. It’s really amazing.
She’s something of a narcissist and is proud of and entertained by her ability to cause this effect, but the point remains that their looks are very important to most young girls and young women, and based on what I’ve seen in life I doubt very much that they would trade attractiveness for plainness if it would mean less ogling from men.
Clearly groping, as you mention, is out of line. I’ve never engaged in it or even thought to do it. And I’ve never been around any man who has. But I’m sure it goes on and it’s wrong. But insisting that we stop acknowledging the attractiveness of women is not going to stop it. I’m sure that women were groped in caveman days when women were far less attractive than they are now and the term “hot chick” was in no man’s mind.
Sex appeal is the problem and the motivation for a lot of this stuff. And sex appeal is not going to go away even should men stop referring to any woman anywhere as being attractive.
Sex appeal is innate and always there. Even in Muslim countries where women have to cover themselves head to toe in shapeless garments with even their eyes covered, it still comes through just in the way they walk, the sound of their voice, their manner, etc. This is why they’re supposed to have male relatives with them when they step outside their homes: even covered head to toe they’ll still draw come-ons from men. Not as many as happens here, of course, but still they will to a certain degree even with their eyes obscured.
So a certain degree of male attention is just a fact of life. The variable is how women decide to respond to it. You can either accept that it’s just a fact of life deal with it the best you can and go on with your life, or you can get pissed off and shake your fist at the heavens, or at men in general, and rail about the injustice of it all. Either way women’s sex appeal is still going to be there and creating problems (and advantages) for women.
Which approach do you think will result in a happier and more rewarding life?
SGotPL, are you M-F transgendered?
If not, please stop telling women what they like, don’t like, should and should not do in their lives.
You are just an embarrassment to decent men everywhere, and a bloody pox on the lives of women.
GOD YES
You’re offering trading 40 years of gropes, attempted rapes, attempted kidnappings, attempts to convince me to prostitute myself, and gender-based insults to my intelligence
for 40 years of occasionally needing to physically cut into some waiter or retail-worker’s path in order to get service.
And note that the “attempts” in those 40 years stayed at that level only because every time I was able to defend myself. You have no fucking idea.
Fuck yeah!
C’mon, now you’re just trolling. Just fuck the hell off man, you’re an embarrassment, not just to men but to the whole human race.
Do you really think that the poster who mentioned that the “hot chick” was moved so Condi Rice could be seated was aggressively demanding attention, and from women, no less?
I’d bet that he wasn’t thinking of women at all when he made his comment, and that he had no idea anyone was going to find his comment objectionable. He was merely lamenting that a woman he enjoyed looking at was moved out of sight so as to lend greater credence to the merit of Kavanaugh’s supporters.
I’d bet dollars to donuts that he had no other thought in mind at the time, and yet typically, the feminists on the board who find it objectionable automatically seek to villainize him and accuse him of “assholism” and deliberately misogynistic intent, which, of course, is exactly the kind of behavior I’ve been criticizing all along. Why not just state your opinion that the term is out of line? Why do you have to immediately jump to the conclusion and then state as fact that he was behaving in a deliberately “assholish” way? Believe it or not, men don’t actually go through life seeking to find ways to piss women off.
“Now, now, y’all are becoming hysterical 
because overly zealous left-wing crackpots are making y’all take things waaay to seriously, retire to the drawing room and compose yourselves!”
CMC fnord!
That links can be hidden in smilies should not be overlooked.