Dude, that all sucks.
I would be very cautious with what you tell the police. You should really have a lawyer sitting there next to you. If not, and you don’t end up in jail (or at least are out on bond), then look into Pro Bono lawyers in your area. I did a quick google and found something called the “Saturday Bar” where law students and volunteer lawyers meet on 2 Saturdays a month with people that can’t afford a lawyer. Find them and call them?
Best of luck to you.
-Tcat
FWIW Tuckerfan, I’m sorry - I think it sucks. I can’t think of a worse feeling than that sinking, burning, gut-wrenching feeling that comes sometime after an event when you’ve been pinged for doing something, and thinking ‘now ytf did I do that? Can I turn back time? Nope. I am screwed.’
Real sorry about the cat, too. I can imagine how it would feel if that happened to my cat.
Poor Tuckerfan…I know how much you liked that job, too. Sorry about the little kitty. Best of luck.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
However, the police called today and want me to come in later on this morning (it’s 3 AM as I write this, I’ve just gotten home from the job that pays the bills) and answer more questions.
[/QUOTE]
Your answer to all questions that the police ask at this point, in my non-lawyerly lay opinion, should be “I want a lawyer.”
Yes, once the police read you your rights, you should have only two things to say “I want to speak to my/an attorney” (they have to provide you with one for free since you can’t afford one) and “Am I free to go now?”. NOTHING ELSE. Do not try and talk your way out, no matter how innocent you are. Do not volunteer to let them search anything, do not sign a statement, just say “I want to speak to an attorney. Am I free to go?” (repeat as nessesary).
Surprisingly, I’m still a free man. For the moment. I spent about an hour and a half talking with the detective, and he put some pressure on me, but I stuck to the truth. In the end, he said that he thought that I was an honest guy and that he didn’t think that I had anything to do with the theft. He said that my ex-boss was pressuring him for an arrest, but most likely all it would be would be vandalism and that he’d call me and allow me to turn myself in. So, it’s a waiting game, I suppose.
Hopefully those items will turn up in a pawn shop and your boss will cool his jets. Until then, dude, sorry you’ve been through such an undeserved wringer. And sincere condolences about your cat.
And now some humor TF is sure to appreciate…
Interrogator: “Name?”
Chekov: “My name?”
Interrogator [sarcastically]: “No, my name.”
Chekov: “I do not know your name!”
Interrogator: “You play games with me mister, and you’re through!”
Chekov: “I am? May I go now?”
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
Surprisingly, I’m still a free man. For the moment. I spent about an hour and a half talking with the detective, and he put some pressure on me, but I stuck to the truth. In the end, he said that he thought that I was an honest guy and that he didn’t think that I had anything to do with the theft. He said that my ex-boss was pressuring him for an arrest, but most likely all it would be would be vandalism and that he’d call me and allow me to turn myself in. So, it’s a waiting game, I suppose.
[/QUOTE]
But, and I am only saying this so that others will learn, if you had followed Ottos or my advice and STFU, you wouldn’t even be facing vandalism charges. This is a perfect example of someone trying to talk themself out of a serious charge they weren’t guilty of and instead talking themselves into a lesser charge. Nor would you have wasted an hour and a half. In fact, you would have been perfectly within your rights, when they said “could you come down to the Police station and answer a few questions?” to answer “I’ll call my attorney and ask him first”. (You can also say “I’d rather not unless you have a warrent”, but I don’t advise doing so unless your attorney says to.)
I have to agree. Rule #1, guilty or not guilty- do not talk to the police without an attorney present.
Feel free to let me know what happened…
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
But, and I am only saying this so that others will learn, if you had followed Ottos or my advice and STFU, you wouldn’t even be facing vandalism charges. This is a perfect example of someone trying to talk themself out of a serious charge they weren’t guilty of and instead talking themselves into a lesser charge. Nor would you have wasted an hour and a half. In fact, you would have been perfectly within your rights, when they said “could you come down to the Police station and answer a few questions?” to answer “I’ll call my attorney and ask him first”. (You can also say “I’d rather not unless you have a warrent”, but I don’t advise doing so unless your attorney says to.)
[/QUOTE]
Except that when this originally rose, I pretty much didn’t have any choice (due to circumstances too complicated to go into) but to admit what I knew. Plausable deniability doesn’t cover everything.
As for showing up today, the lawyer told me that no matter what it would have been Hobson’s choice: If I didn’t show up, I probably would have been arrested, if I showed up alone, I stood a good chance of being arrested, if I showed up with a lawyer (or delayed things until I could find a lawyer), it would have implied guilt. I’m sure I’m not out of the woods yet, but unless the thief returns the items, I find a lawyer willing to take the case for a fee I can afford, the money fairy leaves me a pile of cash enough to cover the cost of a lawyer, or I get arrested and get a public defender (which could be worse than not having a lawyer, if some of the horror stories I’ve heard about PDs are true), I really don’t know what else to do.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
Except that when this originally rose, I pretty much didn’t have any choice (due to circumstances too complicated to go into) but to admit what I knew. Plausable deniability doesn’t cover everything.
As for showing up today, the lawyer told me that no matter what it would have been Hobson’s choice: If I didn’t show up, I probably would have been arrested, if I showed up alone, I stood a good chance of being arrested, if I showed up with a lawyer (or delayed things until I could find a lawyer), it would have implied guilt. I’m sure I’m not out of the woods yet, but unless the thief returns the items, I find a lawyer willing to take the case for a fee I can afford, the money fairy leaves me a pile of cash enough to cover the cost of a lawyer, or I get arrested and get a public defender (which could be worse than not having a lawyer, if some of the horror stories I’ve heard about PDs are true), I really don’t know what else to do.
[/QUOTE]
I’m sorry you’re going through such a bad period.
I am not a lawyer and don’t even live in the US.
However I would like to say that I understand you have the right to a lawyer and that in any serious situation you should always get professional advice.
You may have heard horror stories about public defenders. I have heard horror stories about people who don’t get professional advice. I have also heard the saying ‘the man who defends himself has a fool for a client’.
Good luck, anyway.
Have you asked around for a lawyer who will accept payments over time?
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
Except that when this originally rose, I pretty much didn’t have any choice (due to circumstances too complicated to go into) but to admit what I knew. Plausable deniability doesn’t cover everything.
As for showing up today, the lawyer told me that no matter what it would have been Hobson’s choice: If I didn’t show up, I probably would have been arrested, if I showed up alone, I stood a good chance of being arrested, if I showed up with a lawyer (or delayed things until I could find a lawyer), it would have implied guilt. I’m sure I’m not out of the woods yet, but unless the thief returns the items, I find a lawyer willing to take the case for a fee I can afford, the money fairy leaves me a pile of cash enough to cover the cost of a lawyer, or I get arrested and get a public defender (which could be worse than not having a lawyer, if some of the horror stories I’ve heard about PDs are true), I really don’t know what else to do.
[/QUOTE]
You can tell all, as long as you’re “telling all” before you’re read your rights (IANAL, YMMV, there are some cases where certian utterances can be used even if your rights haven’t been read). Once you’re read your rights, speak only to your lawyer.
Showing up with a lawyer does not imply guilt, it implies intelligence. Every day, a thousand idiots who are guilty as sin show up without an attorney, and also every day dudes who are innocent as the day is long show up “lawyered up”. Now sure, the police want you to think it “implies guilt” as they hate it when you do that, as a lot of their work is make immeasurabley easier by the guilty idiots who show up without a lawyer who think they can talk their way out.
Now, if they were just calling you in as a potenetial witness, then no, don’t bring a lawyer. But if then they (often rather casually) read your your Miranda Rights- then what EVERYONE should do is act slithly offended & puzzled, and say “I came here to help you as I thought you brought me down here to ask me questions as a witness, not a suspect. I want to speak to an attorney. Am I free to go?” Make it sound like it’s their fault for turning what would have been you fully and completely cooperating into someone “layered up”. Don’t fall for their cheap interrogation tricks. Which, you already did, as you have apparently now admitted- after being Mirandized- to a crime. As to PD’s- if it was a very serious crime, and I was assigned a PD, certainly I’d check out his reputation, and if it was bad, I’d sell everything I owned on ebay to hire a good lawyer. But many PD’s are fine, and this would seem to be a good case for one.
IANAL, but even if you are completely utterly innocent of the theft, you have now made it soooo much easier for the DA. Now, he can charge you with several/many crimes, including theft and “breaking & entering”, and you have basically “made his case” for the “B&E” charge. Why anyone would think that “implying guilt” is worse than “admiting guilt” is beyond me. 
Really- everyone- please for the love of God- once they read you your rights- SHUT THE FUCK UP! Say only “I want to speak to an attorney” and “Am I free to go?” You can never, ever “talk your way out” once they have read you your rights, as they have *already decided * you are a serious suspect at that time. Anything your say will be used against you. Really.
Incidentaly, “Hobsen’s choice” doesn’t mean a choice between several bad outcomes. It means “no real choice at all” aka “take it or leave it”.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Really- everyone- please for the love of God- once they read you your rights- SHUT THE FUCK UP! Say only “I want to speak to an attorney” and “Am I free to go?” You can never, ever “talk your way out” once they have read you your rights, as they have *already decided * you are a serious suspect at that time. Anything your say will be used against you. Really.
[/QUOTE]
Not to hijack, but..
This never ceases to amaze me on the reality cop/court shows. The sheer number of folks who keep talking when read their rights, or who refuse when asked if they want a lawyer. Every single time this comes up, I’m always yelling at the tv. It drives me bonkers for reasons I can’t even begin to identify.
I was a litigant in a lawsuit, and the work that goes into prepping witnesses for depositions is astounding- not what to say/not to say, but how to say it. I now know why my lawyer sister always answers the question “Do you know what time it is?” with “Yes.”
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
or I get arrested and get a public defender (which could be worse than not having a lawyer, if some of the horror stories I’ve heard about PDs are true), I really don’t know what else to do.
[/QUOTE]
Look buddy, I clerk in a public defender’s office and I’d like you to know that statements like that one are really, really offensive. Contrary to popular belief, public defenders ARE lawyers and deserve the same respect as any other lawyer (which can admittedly be minimal.) We go to law school and pass the bar just like the rest of 'em. In fact, if I were to ever get into any trouble, I would rather have some of the attorneys I work with represent me over a lot of the scummy private criminal defense lawyers I know.
I was watching TV the other night and had to watch this mother say repeatedly “I could’ve afforded a lawyer for my son, but he needed to learn a lesson, so he had a public defender.” AGGGGHHH!! Almost put a hammer through the television. :mad:
Easy, baby…
I iknow that the jokes get old (all lawyer stereotypes do). I also know that a lot of the folks in the public defender’s office are true believers- meaning that they are there to do a good job and to make a difference, rather than make more money elsewhere.
Everybody hates the time-clock punchers who don’t give a shit about their clients, on either side…
If YOU can’t figure out who might’ve stolen this stuff, the police probably can’t either, at least not until the stuff surfaces at a pawnshop or something like that. So don’t admit to anything, and don’t offer to pay for anything. As others have pointed out, this just makes you look guilty. Why would you offer to pay for things you didn’t steal?
The only evidence against you is anything you’re willing to admit to. Add me to the chorus agreeing with wring–get a real lawyer, by any means necessary.
But having said that, I doubt you’ll get our job back, and this incident might make getting another job difficult. This could be a ball and chain that will dog you for years. You have my sympathy. And so does poor Felix. No kitty deserves to die like that.
[QUOTE=bobkitty]
Not to hijack, but..
This never ceases to amaze me on the reality cop/court shows. The sheer number of folks who keep talking when read their rights, or who refuse when asked if they want a lawyer. Every single time this comes up, I’m always yelling at the tv. It drives me bonkers for reasons I can’t even begin to identify.
[/QUOTE]
Dude, you haven’t seen stupid until you’ve worked in the public defenders office. I often say that there needs to be a new criminal enhancement entitled “felony stupid.” You know, for when some idiot asks a cop if he can test the meth he just bought and tell him if it’s real. True story. And yes, it was.
I used to read police reports and think “yeah right he consented to the search, who the hell would consent to a search when they’ve got shit on them?” Took me about a week before I realized they did, and they do it All. The. Time. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
Easy, baby…
I iknow that the jokes get old (all lawyer stereotypes do). I also know that a lot of the folks in the public defender’s office are true believers- meaning that they are there to do a good job and to make a difference, rather than make more money elsewhere.
Everybody hates the time-clock punchers who don’t give a shit about their clients, on either side…
[/QUOTE]
I know, and I don’t mind the jokes. What pisses me off is when people don’t even consider PDs actual lawyers. They make comments like the OP and lizard did (get a real lawyer) without even thinking. It’s not malicious, they just don’t consider PDs lawyers. And that makes me want to bash them upside the head with a clue by four.
My supervisor is one of the most brilliant men I’ve ever known, you can ask him about any criminal law topic and he can start spitting out case cites like its nothing. He has an amazing reputation in the county, better than any private defense attorney. So what has he been doing the last 40 years, “playing” lawyer?