So that’s what that’s for. Hmm. Would I get in trouble if I hit this for every single post for a certain user? Oh wait, witnessing rule. Damn. NM.
This gets my vote.
Read the bolded section of the the part of the rules I quoted. If you have a “question,” you are not to post it, but to seek your answer privately. Posting such a “question” is little more than a sneaky way to make an accusation.
You are right: I do know that St. Jude is the patron of lost causes. And the fact that you keep using an appeal to “lost causes” as a response to other posters is an insult. It is sufficiently indirect that I have not called you on it, but your persistent use of it indicates pretty clearly that you are simply claiming that the other posters are “lost causes.” If you were really praying, you would have no need to post it, here. I pray for many things, but I do not make a point of telling everyone that I am praying that posters stop being bull-headed, irascible, dishonest, inflammatory, insulting, or otherwise disruptive on the board. My prayer is private and not used to make a point that I dislike other posters or their actions.
As to harrassment, I have only taken you to task in two ways: I have challenged your lack of facts or bad logic in discussions; I have told you to refrain from violations of board rules (i.e., Don’t Be a Jerk).
If you consider that harrassment, you are free to post where you will not be harrassed. I do not seek to remove posters simply because they are irritating, only for violating the rules or being disruptive.
If you really don’t want to be here, you can do something about that yourself. You don’t need any moderator to make that decision for you.
So, your position is that Hell, heaven, monsters, Jesus, mohammed, and basically every other standard religious symbol are “constructions of the mind”, which you posit are put there by the mind itself as interpretations, translations, or visualizations of whatever the underlying truth is, right?
If the mind is capable of contructing those images, then why can’t it be constructing all the images? Objectively speaking, is there something about a general (though powerful) sense of love that makes it more difficult to imagine than a fully realized image of Jesus, speaking to you in coherent sentences?
I think you misread my post. I mentioned only negative things as mental constructs. I don’t agree with your assumptions. As for love, I don’t know how to explain a feeling so awesome as unconditional love.
So, if I were to ask you, “Are you an idiot?” you would not take that as an insult?
Good to know.
Regardless, I would. Back off.
[ /Moderating ]
Well this might be off track but this thread is in the crapper anyway so here goes. As a Christian who follows Jesus primarily I look to love my neighbor and not to judge others. That means not calling them liars and calling what they believe in bullshit or whatever. If they see how I live and the deeds I do and feel that I am a good man, solid in my faith and they think they would like to join me in it fine. Do I think they will burn in hell if they don’t? No. I am responsible for only what I do here and how I treat others. I do the best I can. Do I think that others that believe in a God of love are wrong? How can they be? Do I believe that those believe that violence and hate are they way to peace are right? I’m thinking not. Because until the hate and violence leave this place this world will be filled with sadness and despair. And be sure I know all about that. So if lekatt believes that God is about love I have to believe he is speaking the truth. As for OBEs or NDEs I can’t speak for the validity of that as I haven’t had one myself. But as I can believe lekatt as well as Mr.Dibble I’m interested to hear about it. Any body else?
When I summarized my impression of your position and asked for comfirmation, I assumed that your position stayed approximately the same from post to post, and that you knew what it was without it being quoted to you.
Here you mention all the religious icons being merely mental overlays over the (hidden) underlying ‘reality’, and as being an artifact of the beliefs you bring with you. (Such beliefs are of course a solely subjective construct of the mind.) So, in combination with your assertion that all the negative stuff is also made up, we have quite a large catalogue of things that are nothing but personal inventions, yet which I gather form an integral part of a large portion of NDEs.
So, taking all that into account, that so much of what is seen in an NDE can be agreed up as being partly or largely imagined, I ask again why should I or anyone who has such an experience assume that they didn’t imagine all of it?
And if you can remember the experience of unconditional love in anything but the abstract third person, then it is something that your mind can record and reconstruct on command. If it is within the capability of your mind to reconstruct it, I don’t see why it would be impossible for it to have constructed the feeling in the first place.
God is love and does not punsh anyone for anything, so punishment is not in order for those who do violence and harm to others. However, since we all are part of the Oneness what we do to others we do to ourselves as well. Loving and doing good is it’s own reward, just as hating and doing bad is it’s own punishment. In the near death experience there is sometimes a life review where this becomes apparent, your life is played before you and you feel exactly what you made others feel when you either helped them or harmed them. This review can be full of love or full of pain depending on how you treated others. This does not happen in all near death experiences, but, I am told, it will happen to everyone that crosses over into the spirit world to stay. I hope this helps to answer your question. Keep your focus on God’s love for you and treat others with respect and love at all times. It is the best path.
I read your post but can’t see what you want from me? You have answered all your own questions.
I have? Really? Okay, that’s all right then. If you don’t see anything in there that requires a response on your part, I shall leave it at that.
I’ll take a stab at this, when one is experiencing the spiritual realm there is not a direct correlation to our physical world, we have to interperte it somehow so it can be understandable here in our physical world, so we associate things in one realm with things in the other. A religious figure would represent certain values, it is not so much the person but what that person represents to you, sometime sit can be very far off.
A quick example, lets say you met Santa Clause in the spirutual realm, I mean the real Santa. Because you really can’t fully understand what spiritual information is when you are in the physical world, your mind will match as best as it can, so perhaps you will perceive Santa as Uncle Ralph (who always gave you presents), or Bob Conner (champion bob sled runner (name made up), or even Frank Houser chimney sweep. At best you can only get part of the picture.
Why did you ask?
I suspect that this would not be a profitable line of discussion to pursue.
O RLY?
So how do you explain most of the old testament? For example, when “god” kicked Adam and Eve out of paradise; or flooded the world to rid it of evil, thus necessitating Noah to construct his famous Ark; or turned Lot’s curious wife into a pillar of salt.
On the topic of NDEs turning atheists into believers or the other way around. Why is this at all amazing or worth paying attention to? Regardless of the pretty lights and the rest of the subjective crap that goes into the experience.
We’re talking about someone that damn-near died. It is not at all surprising that an experience like this could have an effect on someone’s behavior. Nothing that goes bump in the night is required, just a big dose of fear and the realization that you just about didn’t make it.
Testy
What makes you think lekatt believes in the God of the Bible?
Testy - I agree - I had my first OBE when I was “spiritual” and later ones when I was a committed atheist. Didn’t change my spirituality or the lack thereof, but even if it did, it would have had no bearing on the facts of the OBE itself.
mrDibble
Thanks. I’ve never had an OBE happen but would like to. It sounds interesting. The NDE part I’m not so keen on. I’ve never seen where the need for magic comes in on this. Some poor bastard is scared shitless and his brain is shutting down. Why are people surprised that this might make him act differently when he wakes up? The same goes for all the pretty lights and action figures from his favorite religion appearing, why not? The brain is dying, who knows what kind of images it might throw out.
My wife had an OBE during surgery. She felt like she was snatched into the air and met all kinds of Christian-type people standing around. Funny thing, she was a committed Buddhist. She took it as nothing more than an interesting dream caused by the anesthetic. I don’t see how anyone could show otherwise.
Regards
testy